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	<title>Comments on: NAMA Purchases of Good Loans</title>
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	<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 00:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The Irish Economy &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More Bad Signs on NAMA</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/#comment-9267</link>
		<dc:creator>The Irish Economy &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More Bad Signs on NAMA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=2313#comment-9267</guid>
		<description>[...] I have written before, the “buying good loans to pay for the costs” statement, despite its regular repetition in the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I have written before, the “buying good loans to pay for the costs” statement, despite its regular repetition in the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Conroy</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/#comment-8429</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Conroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=2313#comment-8429</guid>
		<description>Hello
I think this blog is great, timely and has a refreshing independence - but alas I am a lay person; I follow most arguments, but I get lost with some of the short hand: any chance of a link to a glossary, explaining some of the terms like zero coupon, PV, etc.

Tom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello<br />
I think this blog is great, timely and has a refreshing independence - but alas I am a lay person; I follow most arguments, but I get lost with some of the short hand: any chance of a link to a glossary, explaining some of the terms like zero coupon, PV, etc.</p>
<p>Tom</p>
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		<title>By: barry</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/#comment-8124</link>
		<dc:creator>barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 10:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=2313#comment-8124</guid>
		<description>Isn't the proposed 'NAMA method' a repeat of the sub-prime? i.e anough loans overall, the good will pay off the bad? Thank you Karl, on listening to Murphy (the mouthpiece of the gov/ntma press office) my reaction was exactly the same as yours. Your professional analysis is perfect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t the proposed &#8216;NAMA method&#8217; a repeat of the sub-prime? i.e anough loans overall, the good will pay off the bad? Thank you Karl, on listening to Murphy (the mouthpiece of the gov/ntma press office) my reaction was exactly the same as yours. Your professional analysis is perfect.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Donnelly</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/#comment-8089</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Donnelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 06:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=2313#comment-8089</guid>
		<description>No matter how much lipstick is carefully applied to the lips of a pig, it is still a pig. 
By introducing NaMa, we talk about NaMa. A master stroke. No analysis of what happened or why: a solution is presented. 

A black box. Just don't open the box...... But we will in a few years time. Like torturing children, the longer the events are in the past the less anger there will be. Justice delayed is justice denied.
Remember Iceland!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No matter how much lipstick is carefully applied to the lips of a pig, it is still a pig.<br />
By introducing NaMa, we talk about NaMa. A master stroke. No analysis of what happened or why: a solution is presented. </p>
<p>A black box. Just don&#8217;t open the box&#8230;&#8230; But we will in a few years time. Like torturing children, the longer the events are in the past the less anger there will be. Justice delayed is justice denied.<br />
Remember Iceland!</p>
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		<title>By: bill hobbs</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/#comment-8079</link>
		<dc:creator>bill hobbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 19:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=2313#comment-8079</guid>
		<description>Surely the repayments on the good loans will service them? Where does the Murphy stream of income come from to pay for anything else unless its being suggested the discount paid is so hefty that asset sales can be converted into net positive cash flows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely the repayments on the good loans will service them? Where does the Murphy stream of income come from to pay for anything else unless its being suggested the discount paid is so hefty that asset sales can be converted into net positive cash flows.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Dowling</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/#comment-8077</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Dowling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 18:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=2313#comment-8077</guid>
		<description>I think for the time being the word good in conjunction with loans should have surrounding quote marks.  Taxpayers should assume for the present "good" loans just haven't gone bad - yet.  However, saying you're buying in "good" loans at first is politically more saleable than having to do a NAMA Tranche 2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think for the time being the word good in conjunction with loans should have surrounding quote marks.  Taxpayers should assume for the present &#8220;good&#8221; loans just haven&#8217;t gone bad - yet.  However, saying you&#8217;re buying in &#8220;good&#8221; loans at first is politically more saleable than having to do a NAMA Tranche 2.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry T</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/#comment-8073</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 17:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=2313#comment-8073</guid>
		<description>Will it not be the case that the PV of the bonds (depending on coupon and whatever term structure exists at the time) will match the forecast PV of the transferred loans and that this will balance each other out. i.e. give a zero coupon bond matching the PV of the loan or a bond with fixed coupon matching the PV of the loan? Thus the issue is how much working capital is required to get NAMA up and running? The sooner the business plan for the agency is finalised and the funding requirement established the better.

As clearly established by all the key will be the valuation of the assets with there having to be an exit plan from the beginning vis a vis asset disposal in order to fix the value of what is transferred – some plans  regarding a target market for disposal of assets and sequencing strategy must be developed now. Part of this exit plan could be quick disposal of some of the assets to generate the seed working capital for the agency (or provision of some funds by government during its establishment)? These initial disposals could of necessity be at the lower end of the valuation range and this fact built into the overall loan markdown.

Looking at NAMA as a project the NPV of NAMA should be zero – the value of bonds issued to the banks should reflect this aspirational position and take into account all the projected costs (including that of working capital, coupon payments, salary, fees etc.) and repayment/asset disposal cashflows in determining this value.

Removing all performing and non-performing loans can imply a wish to have a cut it all away and “what is left is ok” approach or alternatively bringing all loans with associated guarantees etc. into the same pot is driven by need to give as much more visibility as to overall status of each borrowers portfolio and facilitate working out on a borrower by borrower basis rather than a project by project basis?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will it not be the case that the PV of the bonds (depending on coupon and whatever term structure exists at the time) will match the forecast PV of the transferred loans and that this will balance each other out. i.e. give a zero coupon bond matching the PV of the loan or a bond with fixed coupon matching the PV of the loan? Thus the issue is how much working capital is required to get NAMA up and running? The sooner the business plan for the agency is finalised and the funding requirement established the better.</p>
<p>As clearly established by all the key will be the valuation of the assets with there having to be an exit plan from the beginning vis a vis asset disposal in order to fix the value of what is transferred – some plans  regarding a target market for disposal of assets and sequencing strategy must be developed now. Part of this exit plan could be quick disposal of some of the assets to generate the seed working capital for the agency (or provision of some funds by government during its establishment)? These initial disposals could of necessity be at the lower end of the valuation range and this fact built into the overall loan markdown.</p>
<p>Looking at NAMA as a project the NPV of NAMA should be zero – the value of bonds issued to the banks should reflect this aspirational position and take into account all the projected costs (including that of working capital, coupon payments, salary, fees etc.) and repayment/asset disposal cashflows in determining this value.</p>
<p>Removing all performing and non-performing loans can imply a wish to have a cut it all away and “what is left is ok” approach or alternatively bringing all loans with associated guarantees etc. into the same pot is driven by need to give as much more visibility as to overall status of each borrowers portfolio and facilitate working out on a borrower by borrower basis rather than a project by project basis?</p>
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		<title>By: Garry</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/#comment-8064</link>
		<dc:creator>Garry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 16:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=2313#comment-8064</guid>
		<description>I thought the idea of taking both good and bad was 

a) So much shysterism has gone into this via creative accounting its hard to seperate what is genuinely good and genuinely bad
b) If a developer keeps his "good" loans with the bank and leaves the rubbish with NAMA, how are we going to force the guy to pay anything bank to NAMA? The definition of not performing is it wont pay back....

 Obviously, he will try to keep the bank sweet focus on the good stuff to make some profit, whilst walking away from the bad stuff.....

The creation of NAMA who owns all the bad stuff without visibility into any of the good stuff puts NAMA at an even bigger serious disadvantage when dealing with an individual developer.

No, if youre a developer and you have some good stuff and some bad stuff, lump it all together with one entity, ban that developer from any dealings with any other institution and bring out the rubber gloves....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought the idea of taking both good and bad was </p>
<p>a) So much shysterism has gone into this via creative accounting its hard to seperate what is genuinely good and genuinely bad<br />
b) If a developer keeps his &#8220;good&#8221; loans with the bank and leaves the rubbish with NAMA, how are we going to force the guy to pay anything bank to NAMA? The definition of not performing is it wont pay back&#8230;.</p>
<p> Obviously, he will try to keep the bank sweet focus on the good stuff to make some profit, whilst walking away from the bad stuff&#8230;..</p>
<p>The creation of NAMA who owns all the bad stuff without visibility into any of the good stuff puts NAMA at an even bigger serious disadvantage when dealing with an individual developer.</p>
<p>No, if youre a developer and you have some good stuff and some bad stuff, lump it all together with one entity, ban that developer from any dealings with any other institution and bring out the rubber gloves&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Lucey</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/#comment-8060</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Lucey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 15:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=2313#comment-8060</guid>
		<description>Karl
See the Sunday Times article by myself and Constantin G. There is NO WAY that the good assets can pay for the bad....feel free to ask for the spreadsheets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karl<br />
See the Sunday Times article by myself and Constantin G. There is NO WAY that the good assets can pay for the bad&#8230;.feel free to ask for the spreadsheets.</p>
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		<title>By: Ahura Mazda</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/#comment-8056</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahura Mazda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 15:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=2313#comment-8056</guid>
		<description>Generic European AAA CMBS spreads are in the region of 1,000bps.

If you're willing to take commercial mortgage risk, this is a much better option.  You're diversifying risk across countries, there is subordinate risk and you're getting a much higher coupon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generic European AAA CMBS spreads are in the region of 1,000bps.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re willing to take commercial mortgage risk, this is a much better option.  You&#8217;re diversifying risk across countries, there is subordinate risk and you&#8217;re getting a much higher coupon.</p>
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		<title>By: Maurice O'Leary</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/#comment-8051</link>
		<dc:creator>Maurice O'Leary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 14:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=2313#comment-8051</guid>
		<description>Good article.

Too many people think just because the government have "decided" on Nama then we should just get on with it.

The basis for Nama seems to be highly political.
not that we should be surprised as consultant reports are often used to give a veneer of independence to highly politicised decision.

Dr. Bacon appears to have reported under two constraints.
No overt nationalisation.
No default on subordianted liabilities.

Taxpayer risk was not a constraint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article.</p>
<p>Too many people think just because the government have &#8220;decided&#8221; on Nama then we should just get on with it.</p>
<p>The basis for Nama seems to be highly political.<br />
not that we should be surprised as consultant reports are often used to give a veneer of independence to highly politicised decision.</p>
<p>Dr. Bacon appears to have reported under two constraints.<br />
No overt nationalisation.<br />
No default on subordianted liabilities.</p>
<p>Taxpayer risk was not a constraint.</p>
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		<title>By: Cormac Lucey</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/#comment-8049</link>
		<dc:creator>Cormac Lucey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 14:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=2313#comment-8049</guid>
		<description>You are absolutely right. What it reveals is the lack of independent thinking by most of our media. They ask "what's the line?", get it and then propogate it without asking themselves "does this make sense?"

The facts that The Irish Times hasn't replaced Paul Tansey (RIP) and that RTE plans to replace George Lee with an economics correspondent rather than an economics editor speaks volumes. That's one major reason why this website is so valuable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are absolutely right. What it reveals is the lack of independent thinking by most of our media. They ask &#8220;what&#8217;s the line?&#8221;, get it and then propogate it without asking themselves &#8220;does this make sense?&#8221;</p>
<p>The facts that The Irish Times hasn&#8217;t replaced Paul Tansey (RIP) and that RTE plans to replace George Lee with an economics correspondent rather than an economics editor speaks volumes. That&#8217;s one major reason why this website is so valuable.</p>
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		<title>By: zhou_enlai</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/05/26/nama-purchases-of-good-loans/#comment-8048</link>
		<dc:creator>zhou_enlai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 13:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=2313#comment-8048</guid>
		<description>@Karl:   What vested interest (other than a bank) could possibly want performing loans transferred without a discount and why?

The reason for transferring performing loans may be to prevent any perceived rescue of builders.   If I am right then it is purely a political reason.

The hoi polloi want to see the builders destroyed.   The politicians are happy to help to save their own skins.   If you need to liquidate a developer then you will be better placed if you own the charges over all related properties.   Otherwise you may be into a quagmire where you want to chase assets that other banks have a charge over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Karl:   What vested interest (other than a bank) could possibly want performing loans transferred without a discount and why?</p>
<p>The reason for transferring performing loans may be to prevent any perceived rescue of builders.   If I am right then it is purely a political reason.</p>
<p>The hoi polloi want to see the builders destroyed.   The politicians are happy to help to save their own skins.   If you need to liquidate a developer then you will be better placed if you own the charges over all related properties.   Otherwise you may be into a quagmire where you want to chase assets that other banks have a charge over.</p>
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