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	<title>Comments on: NAMA and Behavioural  Finance</title>
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	<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/08/05/nama-and-behavioural-finance/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 19:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Marise</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/08/05/nama-and-behavioural-finance/#comment-11679</link>
		<dc:creator>Marise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=3334#comment-11679</guid>
		<description>I submit that just about every square inch of this country's residential property is vastly overpriced.  Young families went to the wall to get on the "property ladder" (How I've grown to despise that term) by any means possible.  The pressure to do this from all avenues  - family, friends, government, the plague of property-related TV shows - was very intense.  I've spoken to young couples who worked two jobs each, plus taking out loans from credit unions (seemingly the reporting rules are different) and representing them as a gift from Granny to the mortgage lender.  So the prices skyrocketed.  

As the frantic build-and-sell progressed, the land areas became smaller (how is that possible?  They were already the size of postage stamps!) and the houses built more poorly, but still the prices went up.

The residential property here, were one to apply any reasonable valuation, will likely not approach those unreal values for many, many years to come.  NAMA thinks it can wait a little while; I think that the Government will end up being Ireland's largest landlord, not peoperty seller.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I submit that just about every square inch of this country&#8217;s residential property is vastly overpriced.  Young families went to the wall to get on the &#8220;property ladder&#8221; (How I&#8217;ve grown to despise that term) by any means possible.  The pressure to do this from all avenues  - family, friends, government, the plague of property-related TV shows - was very intense.  I&#8217;ve spoken to young couples who worked two jobs each, plus taking out loans from credit unions (seemingly the reporting rules are different) and representing them as a gift from Granny to the mortgage lender.  So the prices skyrocketed.  </p>
<p>As the frantic build-and-sell progressed, the land areas became smaller (how is that possible?  They were already the size of postage stamps!) and the houses built more poorly, but still the prices went up.</p>
<p>The residential property here, were one to apply any reasonable valuation, will likely not approach those unreal values for many, many years to come.  NAMA thinks it can wait a little while; I think that the Government will end up being Ireland&#8217;s largest landlord, not peoperty seller.</p>
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		<title>By: Aidan C</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/08/05/nama-and-behavioural-finance/#comment-11610</link>
		<dc:creator>Aidan C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=3334#comment-11610</guid>
		<description>@ Paul Hunt
Very well said.
The Irish economy can be seen as “images   …..of a slow motion car crash that is made up of (a) an insolvent banking system, (b) increasing and largely hidden, but equally real, household and small business insolvencies, (c) government finances that are unsustainable even in the short term, but certainly in the medium term and (d) a political class totally incapable of taking any action to avoid or minimise the inevitable impact.”
The  long boom was primarily debt driven.  Internationally global prosperity was founded on a series of elegant Ponzi schemes. Our own “elegant” Ponzi scheme was built on a belief in perpetual asset appreciation.  

The FF/PD governments from 1997 were active facilitators of this Ponzi culture with their tax breaks and  light touch regulation. 

Bertie, Charlie, Mary, Michael and Brian must all take a big share of the responsibility for this fine mess they have gotten us into. Their misguided and/or irresponsible approach to managing the Irish economy in the 1997- 2007 period rules them out of a credible role in sorting out this mess. I simply do not trust them. I suspect I am not alone in this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Paul Hunt<br />
Very well said.<br />
The Irish economy can be seen as “images   …..of a slow motion car crash that is made up of (a) an insolvent banking system, (b) increasing and largely hidden, but equally real, household and small business insolvencies, (c) government finances that are unsustainable even in the short term, but certainly in the medium term and (d) a political class totally incapable of taking any action to avoid or minimise the inevitable impact.”<br />
The  long boom was primarily debt driven.  Internationally global prosperity was founded on a series of elegant Ponzi schemes. Our own “elegant” Ponzi scheme was built on a belief in perpetual asset appreciation.  </p>
<p>The FF/PD governments from 1997 were active facilitators of this Ponzi culture with their tax breaks and  light touch regulation. </p>
<p>Bertie, Charlie, Mary, Michael and Brian must all take a big share of the responsibility for this fine mess they have gotten us into. Their misguided and/or irresponsible approach to managing the Irish economy in the 1997- 2007 period rules them out of a credible role in sorting out this mess. I simply do not trust them. I suspect I am not alone in this.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Hunt</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/08/05/nama-and-behavioural-finance/#comment-11608</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=3334#comment-11608</guid>
		<description>This thread and the preceding and succeeding ones present images from a number of camera angles of a slow motion car crash that is made up of (a) an insolvent banking system, (b) increasing and largely hidden, but equally real, household and small business insolvencies, (c) government finances that are unsustainable even in the short term, but certainly in the medium term and (d) a political class totally incapable of taking any action to avoid or minimise the inevitable impact.  Instead they are focused on making sure that all the personal safety mechanisms are in place so that they can walk away from the crash - without any consideration of what happens to the car or where it might end up.

The world has moved on.  The external benign and supporting factors of the NICE (Non-inflationary, Constantly Expanding) era in the 1990s (that gelled with domestic reforms) no longer exist.  While Ireland took the last decade out to gorge on property speculation, other small economies learned from Ireland's experience in the 1990s and are now positioned to ride the next wave.

Ireland will muddle through, but at a huge cost in terms of blighted lives and crushed hopes.  It is a recurrent cycle.  We skinned the calves for de Valera in the 30s, built the motorways and airports for the Brits in the 50s and 60s, and put our shoulders to the economic wheels in Britain, the US and Australia in the 80s.  All one is left with is fury at the avoidable waste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thread and the preceding and succeeding ones present images from a number of camera angles of a slow motion car crash that is made up of (a) an insolvent banking system, (b) increasing and largely hidden, but equally real, household and small business insolvencies, (c) government finances that are unsustainable even in the short term, but certainly in the medium term and (d) a political class totally incapable of taking any action to avoid or minimise the inevitable impact.  Instead they are focused on making sure that all the personal safety mechanisms are in place so that they can walk away from the crash - without any consideration of what happens to the car or where it might end up.</p>
<p>The world has moved on.  The external benign and supporting factors of the NICE (Non-inflationary, Constantly Expanding) era in the 1990s (that gelled with domestic reforms) no longer exist.  While Ireland took the last decade out to gorge on property speculation, other small economies learned from Ireland&#8217;s experience in the 1990s and are now positioned to ride the next wave.</p>
<p>Ireland will muddle through, but at a huge cost in terms of blighted lives and crushed hopes.  It is a recurrent cycle.  We skinned the calves for de Valera in the 30s, built the motorways and airports for the Brits in the 50s and 60s, and put our shoulders to the economic wheels in Britain, the US and Australia in the 80s.  All one is left with is fury at the avoidable waste.</p>
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		<title>By: LorcanRK</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/08/05/nama-and-behavioural-finance/#comment-11593</link>
		<dc:creator>LorcanRK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 00:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=3334#comment-11593</guid>
		<description>@Karl, Akerlof's famous lemons and cherries in the second hand car market example shows how asymmetric information can distort a market.

But, is the property market in Ireland, considering its illiquidity, not potentially an asymmetric market?

By this I mean that because the market doesn't currently exist - especially the 'investment property' market - that prices set in the market remain untested. The only information available is the asking price from the vendor, or the estimated market price decided by a valuation. Because there is no information from buyers, the market becomes asymmetric.

Most hypothesis require a transaction, to have both a buyer and a seller. A market that has neither willing buyers or sellers escapes traditional analysis. 

So the government gets to guess the market value. Then they get to guess the 'long-term economic value'. And pay somewhere in between.

I did say this before, but half of this guess-work could be eliminated if the legislation allowed NAMA to decide on a value between zero and the 'long-term BS'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Karl, Akerlof&#8217;s famous lemons and cherries in the second hand car market example shows how asymmetric information can distort a market.</p>
<p>But, is the property market in Ireland, considering its illiquidity, not potentially an asymmetric market?</p>
<p>By this I mean that because the market doesn&#8217;t currently exist - especially the &#8216;investment property&#8217; market - that prices set in the market remain untested. The only information available is the asking price from the vendor, or the estimated market price decided by a valuation. Because there is no information from buyers, the market becomes asymmetric.</p>
<p>Most hypothesis require a transaction, to have both a buyer and a seller. A market that has neither willing buyers or sellers escapes traditional analysis. </p>
<p>So the government gets to guess the market value. Then they get to guess the &#8216;long-term economic value&#8217;. And pay somewhere in between.</p>
<p>I did say this before, but half of this guess-work could be eliminated if the legislation allowed NAMA to decide on a value between zero and the &#8216;long-term BS&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Lucey</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/08/05/nama-and-behavioural-finance/#comment-11585</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Lucey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=3334#comment-11585</guid>
		<description>Aidan 
I cannot even play a record (dating myself...) never mind a stringed instrument....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aidan<br />
I cannot even play a record (dating myself&#8230;) never mind a stringed instrument&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Aidan C</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/08/05/nama-and-behavioural-finance/#comment-11570</link>
		<dc:creator>Aidan C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=3334#comment-11570</guid>
		<description>It’is a Bailout!  
 Merle Hazard and his singing buddies think so in a tuneful way at  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xD-XOVUaNQ&#38;feature=channel_page  

If only  Karl Whelan, Brian Lucey and Morgan Kelly could tune up their guitars , “NAMA’s a Bailout” could become  a Summer 2009 hit!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’is a Bailout!<br />
 Merle Hazard and his singing buddies think so in a tuneful way at  <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xD-XOVUaNQ&amp;feature=channel_page" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xD-XOVUaNQ&amp;feature=channel_page</a>  </p>
<p>If only  Karl Whelan, Brian Lucey and Morgan Kelly could tune up their guitars , “NAMA’s a Bailout” could become  a Summer 2009 hit!</p>
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		<title>By: podubhlain</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/08/05/nama-and-behavioural-finance/#comment-11563</link>
		<dc:creator>podubhlain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=3334#comment-11563</guid>
		<description>Interesting snippet from article in Investopedia on values which could describe the course we are taking on LTEV.
 "Regulatory Response to Dubious Practices
During the 1980s and 1990s, financial institutions, corporations and traders increasingly traded derivatives and other complex instruments – financial contracts with complicated valuation formulas that lacked an active market. Such instruments made it hard to objectively determine their respective values. Banks and companies began to use highly subjective, if not downright speculative, assumptions to assign values to these assets. Dubious values that were assigned were reflective of personal interests and objectives, and provided misleading financial snapshots of the entity to outside users of the financial statements".
Not much different from non-existent property market</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting snippet from article in Investopedia on values which could describe the course we are taking on LTEV.<br />
 &#8220;Regulatory Response to Dubious Practices<br />
During the 1980s and 1990s, financial institutions, corporations and traders increasingly traded derivatives and other complex instruments – financial contracts with complicated valuation formulas that lacked an active market. Such instruments made it hard to objectively determine their respective values. Banks and companies began to use highly subjective, if not downright speculative, assumptions to assign values to these assets. Dubious values that were assigned were reflective of personal interests and objectives, and provided misleading financial snapshots of the entity to outside users of the financial statements&#8221;.<br />
Not much different from non-existent property market</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Lucey</title>
		<link>http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/08/05/nama-and-behavioural-finance/#comment-11560</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Lucey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=3334#comment-11560</guid>
		<description>there are so many many biases being exhibited in NAMA....so many. Some stage must tabulate em all...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there are so many many biases being exhibited in NAMA&#8230;.so many. Some stage must tabulate em all&#8230;</p>
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