I can understand the personal reasons for his reaction but if a repeat of a Bertieism is construed as “Gross & Mischievous” I fear this site has rather lost its sense of humour.

E43Bn, you are of course totally correct, it was a take off of Bertie, thanks for your input, as coming directly from me it would possibly not convince.

I am utterly unaware of any of BL’s personal background other than he is a professor at UCD (I think).

Let the remark be withdrawn, for sure, and I apologise for any hurt to BL. But to apologise for making the comment in innocence, no that would be unwarranted and disingenuous.

As a fully paid-up member of the ‘There is no alternative’ and ‘The only game in town’ clubs you should elaborate.

Economics site, my arse.

Although the above article is sceptical I believe that BOI may be right. I think we should see Boucher’s comments as a further refutation of the spin that NAMA’s valuers are taking a much tougher line than anyone thought.

http://www.tribune.ie/business/article/2009/nov/22/banks-in-cash-crisis/

From Coughlan’s comments (see comment above) on lending it sounds like BOI have been much more cooperative than AIB. If AIB are shocked by the valuations it is because they are like an evil Jedward. AIB’s evaluation of themselves is entirely different to everyone else’s.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/new-aib-boss-backed-secret-tax-haven-plan-1957888.html

If negative thinking and negative talking are damaging our economy appointing insiders to our banks is doing huge harm. If BOI is the protestant bank AIB are the bank of the catholic hierarchy.

Just wondering…
Are our banks deliberately not lending for mortgages? There have been some recent reports suggesting this. The less lending they do the more they can say that the market just isn’t functioning. Also, the huge number of businesses which depend directly or indirectly on property transactions are left desperate for NAMA, which they have been promised will solve this problem. A problem the banks would not have been evil enough to create, would they?

Finally:
http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/upwardonly-rents-to-be-banned-45967.html
“Upward-only rent reviews will be banned in new commercial leases negotiated from early next year, The Sunday Business Post has learned.

Justice minister Dermot Ahern will sign a commencement order this week banning the upward-only reviews, which have been the subject of battles between landlords and retailers all over the country since the economic downturn took hold”.

Good. But why not break existing leases.
“However, the ban cannot be applied retrospectively, according to advice from the attorney general”.
I think that should be published. Will it be?

You will all be surprised by the following:
“The cabinet gave lengthy consideration to concerns raised over the impact of a ban on the valuation of assets taken over by the National Asset Management Agency (Nama)”.

I’ll bet they did. They never do any governing. Bank lending and unemployment are no concern. Colm McCarthy and the tax commission prepared their policies. The smart economy money was used to reduce unemployment figures. The public sector paycut is to divert blame and distract from NAMA. So what do they spend their time doing?

The FF ministers spend all their time on the great issue facing our country:
how to save developers from their losses.

Good link. Drepressing to see the government floundering around. But good link.

The banks have their riding instructions from the ECB.

Shrink your balance sheets.

Will you concede that the government guarantee of existing bank subordinate and senior bondholders was unnecessary, vastly costly, demanded by no one and of benefit only to well-connected bank investors and the well-connected developers they would otherwise now be hunting through the swampy development land of Ireland like the Predator?
Fox Mulder believed in aliens but even he wouldn’t have believed in the blanket bank guarantee.

Will NAMA get credit flowing, so much of it that it will be like quantitative easing? Here is another ominous sign.

http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/coughlan-overhaul-of-banking-skillsets-needed-45883.html

“Despite reports from banks that they are lending to businesses, the Tanaiste said she was ‘‘inundated with people telling me that the lending was not real’’.

Coughlan said she was taking steps to ensure that the figures supplied by banks were accurate. She has instructed the state advisory board, Forfas, to work with the Department of Finance and the banks ‘‘to get to the bottom of it’’, and has also discussed the issue with Patrick Honohan, the new governor of the Central Bank.

‘‘This department needs to know precisely, warts and all, what lending is taking place,” said Coughlan.”

This raises lot of questions. Brian Lenihan told us in Oct 08 he was watching
the banks lending. As he put €7 Bn into AIB and BOI he told us this would result in extra lending. Now, suddenly, responsibility has shifted to Mary Coughlan. Furthermore, the government are saying that a year and two months after the guarantee they still don’t know what the position is.
What has Lenihan been doing since Oct 08? Coughlan is already in charge of managing the employment crisis (she set up an unemployment taskforce that only met once). More huge responsibility, for HER?
I say responsibility but it’s clear that for some reason she is not doing this through her department but through Forfas. That sounds like she is insulating herself from responsibility.

This government responded to the crisis at a glacial pace. When they eventually responded it was with the easy option of tax increases only.
Then they lurched to spending cuts only. Now they are lurching drunkenly between the two.

Finally, I didn’t see much talk about abolishing all tax breaks and clamping down on non-residency. I wonder what scale of crisis it would take for that to happen?

Banks that dont lend to an economy ARE zombie Banks.

And they will not be able to see us through our current crisis. They are zombie Banks soon to be dead Banks walking.

There is no way our Banks will be able to withstand the level of Mortgage default coming down the tracks.

These Banks will fail or be taken into state care. How much they will have cost us in the meantime because of the self preservation that is going on at the moment is our next big worry.

@34 billion

Gormley would have taken a lot longer than 25 mins. I heard that he is still waiting on the rape seed oil powered vehicle he had dispatched from our embassy in Cape town

“Without NAMA or its equivalent”

What equivalent? Brian Cowen and Brian Lenihan decided that NAMA (as is) was the only show in town. Both continually said that NAMA was then only way to get credit flowing to SMEs. Now the banks have told them, and us, where to go.

I’m still waiting for a statement from either on this disgraceful state of affairs. They went to the casino. They played with our money and they lost.

Without NAMA or its equivalent we would have zombie (or actually dead) banks totally incapable of seeing us through and out of this crisis. But we still have a crisis, a chronic government imbalance, a totally wrong currency, a steeply declining economy, a far too generous social welfare and public pay platform, a hugely indebted populace. NAMA is the best chance to solve one of our problems, a collapsed banking system, but it is not a panacea.

Damn. Thought I had you there.

Fifth, I’ll just have to sign the NAMA song.

After all they might as well have been singing this on the night they decided to guarantee that pile of stinking manure known as Anglo Irish Bank.

Maybe they were, sure isn’t Brian Cowen always up for a sing song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdUeVAkzEas&feature=fvw

Who made the initial decision that the options were risk insurance or a bad bank? Can we see evidence of their analysis of the options?
Also, was there an appointments process for Dr Bacon?
Was there an appointments process for the interim head of NAMA?
Will there be one if he is confirmed?
On what basis did the minister direct the hiring of Merrill Lynch?
Was there a tender process?
Who was putting Michael Sommers under pressure to put money on deposit with Anglo?
Who did he tell about his serious reservations about Anglo?
What did they reply?
The minister directed the NPRF to pour €7 BN of the nation’s pension fund into AIB and BOI. After doing so, why did he leave the boards of AIB and BOI virtually intact and allow the appointment of insiders as chief executive, especially to AIB?
Also, I talked before about the acutely incestuous process relating to government bank director and Anglo chief executive appointments.
How does the appointments procedure work for directors who are watching our huge “investments” in Anglo, AIB and BOI?

Further example from Shane Ross involving the current chairman of a bank which we wholly control NOW:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/anglo-chairman-oconnor-picked-drumm-for-top-job-1957892.html

Ross, who is rapidly becoming the Van Helsing of the Irish banking horror story, also had two other excellent articles.

i was referencing Stuart’s original points, in particular his first, third and, yes you guessed it, fourth. Its not rocket science.

So there, your arguments are incorrect.

This might help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9EgE_JtEAw

What I ask the NAMA-phobes is do they really think we would be better off today if we had never given a bank guarantee, never recapitalised, never came up with a plan to detox the banking system?

The Permanenttsb/ESRI house price data is based on mortgage transactions handled by the bank and the volume is way down compared with the boom.

The index does not reflect the price falls of higher value property, which would generally have been funded by other bigger banks.

It’s interesting that the CSO does not provide house price data and when it produces data on agricultural land prices, it separates data on what would be considered “development land” and does not publish it - - this has suited both the IFA and the construction sector.

The ESRI figure are not up to date figures. My information is not just anecdotal.

I am a small business owner actively involved in my local chamber. I am talking to estate agents everyday.

The reports they are giving would make your toes curl. All property in this country has taken an enormous reduction.

50-80% is the norm. Rents are plummeting and at the moment in my town there are 16 empty units all of which were occupied 2 years ago.

The esri are dealing in figures presented by Banks and large estate agents. Right now I would trust the church with babysitting services and Bertie with my cash before I would trust either of the other two to tell the truth.

“Property prices have fallen 25-30%.

Where are you posting from Melbourne. This is an Irish site and property prices here have fallen 50-80%.”

1. The 25-30% off peak refers to house prices not general “property” prices.

3. This information comes from the ESRI report, is based on actual transactions, but makes no allowance for accountants, relative or otherwise, acting as valuers of as yet unfinished holiday home developments.

4. I post from Ireland.

“I want to know where you get the figure of €51.3bn from.

Do you have an answer?”

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

A debtors’ revolt is not out of the question.

2. 2 has no has no place in pro NAMA land, 2 is for the exclusive use of the anti NAMA truth, as in 2 + 2 = whatever you’re having yourself and there’ll be no questions asked.

Property prices have fallen 25-30%.

Where are you posting from Melbourne. This is an Irish site and property prices here have fallen 50-80%.

The estate agents who turned developer in this country may still be advertising 25-30% reductions as great value, and bargain basement but nobody is buying unless the reduction is at least 50% and then only in places they would like to live or know the would get a rent.

In fact an accountant relative of mine recently valued 24 holiday home development with 16 finished houses at zero. Nothing. Nada.

Notice how close the word NADA is to NAMA.