Comments on: The Returns to a College Education http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/01/06/the-returns-to-a-college-education/ Wed, 23 May 2012 07:06:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Non-Partisan Economist http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/01/06/the-returns-to-a-college-education/#comment-31559 Non-Partisan Economist Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:43:58 +0000 http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=5185#comment-31559 Pete, Do you have a reference for that U.K. Govt. study? Pete,

Do you have a reference for that U.K. Govt. study?

]]> By: Matt http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/01/06/the-returns-to-a-college-education/#comment-31161 Matt Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:32:50 +0000 http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=5185#comment-31161 <i>"On the final statistic, the (static) median income statistic is presumably designed to show a gender pay gap. In fact, much of this difference can be accounted for by cohort effects, as women graduates are, on average, younger than male graduates. Younger professionals, of course, earn less." </i> Hitting the nail almost on the head here. There could a Simpson's Paradox type thing at work here; perhaps females are the ones that tend to graduate in social sciences and, if we believe the graphic, end up working at Starbucks. As with most discussions on pay gaps, the idea is not to prove that a gap exists, but to prove that the gap is unjust and discriminatory. “On the final statistic, the (static) median income statistic is presumably designed to show a gender pay gap. In fact, much of this difference can be accounted for by cohort effects, as women graduates are, on average, younger than male graduates. Younger professionals, of course, earn less.”

Hitting the nail almost on the head here. There could a Simpson’s Paradox type thing at work here; perhaps females are the ones that tend to graduate in social sciences and, if we believe the graphic, end up working at Starbucks.

As with most discussions on pay gaps, the idea is not to prove that a gap exists, but to prove that the gap is unjust and discriminatory.

]]> By: B P Woods http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/01/06/the-returns-to-a-college-education/#comment-31152 B P Woods Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:29:24 +0000 http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=5185#comment-31152 USA stats are hazardous - treat with caution! I suppose in a monetarist economy much is described as a 'return on investment' . Pretty sad, but that's it! Never mind the quality (of the cloth) just look at the width! Given the weather that's in it - what are the probabilities of burst pipes, etc. Fancy a bit of plumbing then? Should be good for a few bob. @ Pat: That penny you alluded to - its virtual! Will never impact upon a solid surface. USA stats are hazardous - treat with caution!

I suppose in a monetarist economy much is described as a ‘return on investment’ . Pretty sad, but that’s it! Never mind the quality (of the cloth) just look at the width!

Given the weather that’s in it - what are the probabilities of burst pipes, etc. Fancy a bit of plumbing then? Should be good for a few bob.

@ Pat: That penny you alluded to - its virtual! Will never impact upon a solid surface.

]]> By: Pete http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/01/06/the-returns-to-a-college-education/#comment-31119 Pete Thu, 07 Jan 2010 17:53:39 +0000 http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=5185#comment-31119 After the UK government introduced student loans, they did a study to determine which degrees produced the best return on the time and money spent getting them. Only 4 degrees produced any return at all: Medicine Dentistry Law Economics Science and engineering degrees broke even, ie. they repayed the time and money spent on them, but no more. Arts degrees did not even break even. After the UK government introduced student loans, they did a study to determine which degrees produced the best return on the time and money spent getting them.

Only 4 degrees produced any return at all:
Medicine
Dentistry
Law
Economics

Science and engineering degrees broke even, ie. they repayed the time and money spent on them, but no more.

Arts degrees did not even break even.

]]> By: Pat Donnelly http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/01/06/the-returns-to-a-college-education/#comment-31018 Pat Donnelly Thu, 07 Jan 2010 09:34:16 +0000 http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=5185#comment-31018 This is a deflationary spiral. How did banking fare in the thirties? What careers really took off? When is the penny going to drop? This is a deflationary spiral.

How did banking fare in the thirties?

What careers really took off?

When is the penny going to drop?

]]> By: Bruce http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/01/06/the-returns-to-a-college-education/#comment-30997 Bruce Thu, 07 Jan 2010 04:52:54 +0000 http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=5185#comment-30997 Irish students seem to select their third-level 'majors' based on their leaving cert points, rather than their interests in the subject matter. This can't be healthy, or good for education or the economy. Several years ago I sat an entrance-level test for an RTE producer training programs. Young RTE PAs were doing last-minute 'prep' by quizzing each other on how well they had memorized entries in the IPA diaries. So much of second- and third-level education in Ireland revolves around rote memorizaton. This promotes rigid, at time illogical thinking, the opposite to what the country needs to solve its current problems. Irish students seem to select their third-level ‘majors’ based on their leaving cert points, rather than their interests in the subject matter.

This can’t be healthy, or good for education or the economy.

Several years ago I sat an entrance-level test for an RTE producer training programs. Young RTE PAs were doing last-minute ‘prep’ by quizzing each other on how well they had memorized entries in the IPA diaries. So much of second- and third-level education in Ireland revolves around rote memorizaton. This promotes rigid, at time illogical thinking, the opposite to what the country needs to solve its current problems.

]]> By: kevin denny http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/01/06/the-returns-to-a-college-education/#comment-30967 kevin denny Wed, 06 Jan 2010 23:17:10 +0000 http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=5185#comment-30967 The literature on returns to human capital tends not to look at the returns to particular fields (business vs humanities vs social science etc) because it is almost impossible to credibly identify the causal effect. The people who go into different fields differ by unobservables and we don't have experiments (natural or unnatural) that would allow us to get round this. The standard human capital model assumes that people choose their education to maximize the NPV of the investment. Yet if you look at Leaving Cert students choices now there seems to be excess volatility (like with other investments) as kids are avoiding say Architecture like the plague even though the lifetime earnings probably haven't changed that much. Maybe they are discounting hyperbolicaly or something. As another example, the day after Lehmann brothers went belly-up a ton of students in business schools wanted to change their major (out of banking/finance) but largely because thats what the mammy & daddy told them to do. So much for Becker. The literature on returns to human capital tends not to look at the returns to particular fields (business vs humanities vs social science etc) because it is almost impossible to credibly identify the causal effect. The people who go into different fields differ by unobservables and we don’t have experiments (natural or unnatural) that would allow us to get round this.
The standard human capital model assumes that people choose their education to maximize the NPV of the investment. Yet if you look at Leaving Cert students choices now there seems to be excess volatility (like with other investments) as kids are avoiding say Architecture like the plague even though the lifetime earnings probably haven’t changed that much. Maybe they are discounting hyperbolicaly or something.
As another example, the day after Lehmann brothers went belly-up a ton of students in business schools wanted to change their major (out of banking/finance) but largely because thats what the mammy & daddy told them to do. So much for Becker.

]]> By: Joseph http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/01/06/the-returns-to-a-college-education/#comment-30892 Joseph Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:29:11 +0000 http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=5185#comment-30892 75% of posts here will raise a smile. 75% of posts here will raise a smile.

]]> By: Al http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/01/06/the-returns-to-a-college-education/#comment-30890 Al Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:25:16 +0000 http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=5185#comment-30890 Hi I read an article by George Will in the W. post about a book about this subject. Apparently back a few decades ago IQ tests were used to guage job candidates, but was found to be racially discrimatory by the supreme court. This naturally led to the use of educational certification as a measure. But, this then led to a lowering of a return to education as more people used this for self distinction. I tried to find the article in the post before posting this but couldnt. Al Hi
I read an article by George Will in the W. post about a book about this subject. Apparently back a few decades ago IQ tests were used to guage job candidates, but was found to be racially discrimatory by the supreme court.
This naturally led to the use of educational certification as a measure.
But, this then led to a lowering of a return to education as more people used this for self distinction.
I tried to find the article in the post before posting this but couldnt.

Al

]]> By: Garo http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/01/06/the-returns-to-a-college-education/#comment-30873 Garo Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:11:16 +0000 http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=5185#comment-30873 "In fact, much of this difference can be accounted for by cohort effects, as women graduates are, on average, younger than male graduates." Citation? Also how much younger and could we get a comparison of salaries say 5 years into employment or say at 25 or 26? “In fact, much of this difference can be accounted for by cohort effects, as women graduates are, on average, younger than male graduates.”

Citation? Also how much younger and could we get a comparison of salaries say 5 years into employment or say at 25 or 26?

]]> By: zhou_enlai http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/01/06/the-returns-to-a-college-education/#comment-30870 zhou_enlai Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:51:56 +0000 http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=5185#comment-30870 Many professionals in Ireland will be seriously considering returning to college for post-grad courses or even for new degree courses. It would be interesting to know what courses lead to the best outcomes (good salaries) for which category of returning student. Is there still cash in the economics/banking path? :) Many professionals in Ireland will be seriously considering returning to college for post-grad courses or even for new degree courses. It would be interesting to know what courses lead to the best outcomes (good salaries) for which category of returning student. Is there still cash in the economics/banking path? :)

]]> By: Graham Stull http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/01/06/the-returns-to-a-college-education/#comment-30868 Graham Stull Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:40:36 +0000 http://www.irisheconomy.ie/?p=5185#comment-30868 Very amusing: On the final statistic, the (static) median income statistic is presumably designed to show a gender pay gap. In fact, much of this difference can be accounted for by cohort effects, as women graduates are, on average, younger than male graduates. Younger professionals, of course, earn less. Very amusing: On the final statistic, the (static) median income statistic is presumably designed to show a gender pay gap. In fact, much of this difference can be accounted for by cohort effects, as women graduates are, on average, younger than male graduates. Younger professionals, of course, earn less.

]]>