That said, it was perhaps naive of him to expect a lot of influence especially with Richard Bruton in there. Still, from his comments it seems that he was promised some say before the election and he feels that those promises were not kept. It is only 9 months and he can probably forget this period as a bad dream and get on with life.

Given that George is not tied to a particular portfolio, he has the opportunity to promote necessary radicalism: political reform; public service reform; ending the insiders’ self-serving system of Victorian secrecy and introducing accountability.

He would have won the seat as an independent — maybe he should have negotiated from a position of strength before the election.

I’m sure Enda has promised him some bauble if he minds his P’s and Q’s!

very quick though. Its strange to say, given his position, but it seems like he was somewhat naive to how the political game really works in this country. Think he thought he could change the world in double quick time.

*IRELAND’S GEORGE LEE RESIGNS FROM FINE GAEL PARTY

Excellent post and the epitome of what government is about.

the real premium is all at the lower levels, perhaps the turn around was in acknowledgement of this.”

Oh so in reality the 600 are carrying out the last true vocations in Irish society.

The government have reintroduced benchmarking for the top 600 Civil servants because they feel there is a moral obligation to ensure they keep up with the private sector? I doubt it.

The fact that the top brass in private companies and the executives of these companies scratch each others bellies leading to greater societal inequality is something that the government feels it has a moral obligation to copy?

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/CompanyFocus/IsACEOWorth364TimesAnAverageJoe.aspx.
According to this article CEO’s are getting 365 times the wage of an average joe in the US. In the 50’s it was around 33 times.

The morality of trying to encourage private sector levels of inequality in the public sector less than two years after the largest economic disaster since the great depression was averted using a bailout by future generations of citizens is to put it mildly, questionable.

part of the point about being ANY civil servant is that of security, guaranteed pension etc., the concept of ‘power’ is probably not quantifiable, and certainly it exists in both the private and public sectors: one would therefore imagine that the very quantifiable difference is in pay, and yet our high end civil servants earn far less than their private sector counterparts.

The CSO did a fascinating paper on it and it demonstrated (as have many) that the true benefit of civil employment is in the lower paid because it is there where the gap is largest versus a similar position in the private sector.

As for the government leaving or staying in office, that’s what elections are for, one will come eventually!

Lets look at the gains so far from this move:

1. The report of The Review Body On Higher Remuneration In The
Public Sector states at point 4.25:
“The Review Body remains in favour of moderate, performance-related award schemes, where bonus payments reflect the achievement of challenging targets, as motivators of excellence. However, we consider that, in the light of the very serious economic and fiscal environment, the developments in relation to such schemes in the private sector and our recommendations that reductions in remuneration are warranted, the
continuation of performance-related awards cannot be justified in the
current climate.”

At 4.27 it states “As already stated, the salary cost of all the posts within our ambit represents a very small fraction of the total public service paybill. The Review Body is aware that the adjustments recommended in this Report will not, in themselves, have an appreciable effect in terms of reducing the public service paybill, but they will have a demonstration effect.”

OK. Thats the “demonstration effect” thrown in the bin.

2. Outrage on the part of the lower paid civil and public servants who are taking a larger dose of medicine in this round of cuts than their overpaid bosses. What are the chances of success now when it comes to the next round of pay cuts?

3. Another stick handed to the press with which to beat the government. As though the press were running short in that department.

4. A ‘Peasants Revolt’ by FF back-benchers. It remains to be seen in the vote on the issue this week whether or not Mattie McGrath’s courage matches the size of his mouth.

This pay cut was reversed by a few individuals in the Dept. of Finance. The other 600 odd are just along for the ride. So why did Lenihan give in?

In the closing minutes of the film “Clear and Present Danger”, Jack Ryan (CIA), (played by Harrison Ford) declares to President Bennett (played by Donald Moffat) in the Oval Office that it is his duty to report the illegal actions of the President to the Senate Oversight Committee.
The President says :”You’re not going to do that.”
Jack … “I’m not?”
President Bennett … “No, no. You’ve got yourself a chip in the big game now. You’re gonna tuck that away, you are going to save that for a time when your own ass is on the line and then you’re gonna pull it out. And I’m going to cash it in for you. Right?”

This is the happy situation in which our senior Dept. of Finance officials find themselves. They have the inside track on the actions taken by Brian Cowen and St. Brian of Castleknock at the time of the bank guarantee in September 2008. Events which, not coincidentally, have been ruled off limits to the Banking Inquiry. How useful a ‘chip in the big game’ would it be, if you had first-hand knowledge, for instance, that Brian and Brian had agreed, at the insistence of the Dept. of Finance and the Central Bank, not to include Anglo in the bank guarantee…….and then done the exact opposite?

Our happy officials, offended by the unedifying sight of Government Ministers double-counting their own paycuts, decided that they would like a slice of that action too. And they had just the leverage to get what they wanted.

All this is entirely hypothetical of course. But it makes for a more believable explanation than any of the guff we’ve been offered so far.

The entire Irish establishment - public and private - have an immense sense of entitlement. During the boom we thought our civil service was better than other countries because we thought Ireland was better than other countries. Now we know that we were completely wrong on both counts. In my judgement these cuts are appropriate, deserved, fair and will not impact civil servant retention. If the government are genuinely worried about morale - including in the public sector - I suggest they do what the vast majority of the public want and leave office.

Even this debate over bonuses is worth it for the dept. of Finance, as it ties up Oireachtas and newspaper media hours. The enemy facing Ireland isn’t money, it is time. If we allow the dept. of Finance, to dictate to us, terms of how time (the most valuable resource is used) is used, then we are in trouble. How does one circumvent that, and still achieve social justice? C’mon, you guys are economics, you guys are supposed to understand scarcity of resources and all of that.

If I was a deal maker, looking at things from an implementation point of view. I would not bother to dwell on why the airplane (the economy) is still on the run way, unable to fly. I would say, keep the bonus, but I want 10 no. innovative proposals on my desk by next week, to fix all of the problems wrong with that airplane (the economy). Or else you are all shipped off to the department of poles and telegraphs, and I’ll bring in people who know what they are doing. I would say that, because most of those claiming this bonus, work for the department of Finance.

I don’t know if that helps any, but I think Karl Whelan, it is about rapid, quick fire implementation of treatments for the problem. That debate should happen and needs to happen, apart from all of the economic analysis is done. I think, the above best explains the subtle distinction between your approach and mine. BOH.

“While we look on appalled, our establishment just dismiss all our
criticisms. “Begrudgery. Talkingdownery. Political attacks”. They
really don’t get it. In their own minds they are the best ruling class
a country could have, and we should all be down on our knees in
gratitude for them. What is more, they have a Downfall like belief
that the country’s woes are due to the people having somehow failed
THEM.”

Bertold Brecht, a life-long socialist, you know……like Bertie Ahern, captured the nature of the Fianna Fail/Greena Fail coalition in his poem “The Solution”. The poem was written about the brutal suppression of the 1953 workers uprising in East Germany:-

THE SOLUTION

After the uprising of the 17th June
The Secretary of the Writers Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?

The conundrum for us is how do we get a better standard of government without a better standard of electorate?. This is the second time in my working life that the Fianna Fail joy-riders have smashed the Irish economy into a wall. I have perfect faith in their ability to repeat the trick in 20-year cycles.

the real premium is all at the lower levels, perhaps the turn around was in acknowledgement of this

No worries if you delete my last post - it is well off the point. Mea culpa.

“Links to long rambling off-subject posts on off-site blogs are fine as long as the threads don’t turn into a whole sequence of them.”

I understand that Karl, you aught to and should at all times, take whatever measures you deem necessary to preserve as much value as possible, in terms of moderating a debate, while including as wide and diversified a range of writing/contribution styles as you deem necessary to accomodate. There is something, in the coverage of the mortgage issue in particular, this past week, which has prevented me from engaging in conversation at the Irish Economy blog, to a standard which I would aspire to even myself. I have been disappointed myself by that, I just didn’t know how deeply I would feel about a subject, as banal as mortgages.

Keep up the excellent work you are doing, and it is very much appreciated amongst the community here in Ireland. My interest lies basically in the field of evolving workable solutions - in finding a way to get the airplane off the ground, so to speak. I have criticised your views, and even those of the Irish labour party, at my own blog site, in recent times. I feel that economists are good at getting an overall picture as events play out. I am doubtful as to their experience in implementation. I guess, that is as good a ground as any, to differ upon. BOH.

I’ve always had a hands-off policy on the comments. But the comment threads are getting out of hand these days. Far too much long rambling off-subject waffle. I’ll be deleting this kind of stuff far more often in future.

Links to long rambling off-subject posts on off-site blogs are fine as long as the threads don’t turn into a whole sequence of them.

On the point of a labour movement to save us, a hit and run comment to set your head spinning…

From Jacques Ellul’s The Technological Society [1964]

The technique of so-called human relations, developed to adapt the individual to the technical milieu, to force him to accept his slavery, to make him find happiness by the “normalization” of his relations with his group and integrate him into that group to an even greater degree - this techinique is characteristic of the fakeries and shams with which men must be provided if the conflicts provoked by life in a technicized environment are to be avoided. As a remedy it does not amount to much, but as a symptom of technical reinforcement, it is important. We can say that these personal relation are also techniques, that they are not a counterweight to other techniques, but that they bring about the application of technique in the most personal and immediate areas of human activities: man’s relations with other men. They alleviate the rigours of the human condition - but only by forcing man to submit to them more completely. They facilitate both human life and the action of the machinery, improve production while subordinating human spontanaeity to the mathematical calculations of the technicians. In short, they are a kind of lubricating oil, but scarcely a means by which men can recover a sense of worth, personality, and authenticity. On the contrary, they are a delusion which dessicate the individual’s desire for anything better. Man is doubtless made more comfortable by techniques of human relations; but these techniques are wholly oriented toward compelling man to submit to forced labour. Machine and productivity are in the driver’s seat.

The worker through his unions is intensifying his own thralldom to techniques, augmenting their powers of organisation, and completing his own integration into that very movement from which, it may be, unionism had originally hoped to free him.

thanks for your input.

I watched the BBC tv series ‘Spooks’ the other day. A lady accused Karl Marx of trying to bring about the downfall of capitalism. A man replied to her, Marx understood that capitalism would self-destruct itself.

I cannot help but appreciate, our predicament in Ireland is sort of contained, in that exchange. Which leads me to understand what Mike Davis was saying to Bill Moyers. Some kind of real labour movement needs to be fully engaged and included. It is probably the only way that capitalism can be saved from itself now.

This is a pretty basic disagreement about labour issues. But unless someone stands forth to offer to do something, to arrive at a settlement, we will just go on and on. BOH.

However, the legal opinion is irrelevant to the decision on whether to cut their pay or not. In the absence of union agreement, that decision was a unilateral decision taken by the Government on the basis of economic considerations.

Unless the senior civil servants union entered into a separate enforceable agreement on paycuts then whether the bonuses form part of their pay is irrelevant.

The concepts of “core” pay and “basic” pay are irrelevant and meaningless as far as I can see.

Aaah, the welfare state! Sure no one is suffering, it is all the fault of the meeja!

Amen!

I read the govt’s not touching the ps pension as still remaining in the ‘To Do’ box!
They have dealt with alot of interest groups already. They may in the future have been proved wise to take their time on this, if they indeed take on the challenge.

And no offense to any one individual, but they were also the ones around for the:
Abuse of children
Infected blood
Beef exports
Planning payments
Etc, etc

And the general toleration of political gobshitery, where the national interest was abandoned for sectional interests such as church, ruling class, local business mafia’s etc.

They served one half of the country and ignored the rest.
A look at the emigration figures thru their tenure is a measure of their success.
Lets not pretend we owe them our souls, or even decency, sir!

Al

Sham bonuses on top of sham benchmarking for 600 people who are guaranteed a high public income for life.

Like the plutocrats on Wall Street, have they “no sense of decency?”

I don’t believe any member of the senior public service, current or retired, has accepted any responsibility for the economic crash, even though they were part of the policymaking group during the years of reckless mismanagement.

To feather their own nests and ensure that they will continue to do so on retirement when tens of thousands of the victims of the crash, live bleak lives and many will continue to do so, is crass, mean and disgraceful.

Either performance related pay is a good idea or not and if a good idea it should continue throughout a recession. However politically defending “bonuses” was going to be tough.

They should simply have admitted they got the performance related pay system wrong… and that “whoopsie” it had turned into a salary top up.

Nice power if you can get your hands on it though. What was it that Lenihan had to say about our patriotic duty? Then on ‘mature recollection’ he goes and exempts the 642 special patriots who are very important people. So important in fact, that they could not be allowed to become even more patriotic than they already had become.

Just remember, we are all this together and that by 1916 we will be able to hold our heads high.

We live in a democratic republic.
This is our government.
We choose to and do ignore it at our peril!

I think that the next generation of politicians may have a sharper sense of what constitutes that national interest, than the current ones.
I wonder about the electorate though!!
Night

Al

The government’s “supportivers”, for few would now admit to supporting the government parties themselves, need to ask themselves if a government that has caused an economic and banking collapse, covered them up, and is fighting tooth and nail to keep them covered up, is worth it. A government that is worn out, utterly bereft of ideas or the capacity to inspire.

Perhaps it’s because we’re a catholic country but supportivers give the government a limitless supply of indulgences. On the cuts to the blind and others, judges pay, tax breaks, quangos, pork barrel spending, the bank inquiry, minister’s salaries, NAMA…no matter what the government do the supportivers indulge them.

Because of the indulgences of the supportivers being this government means never having to say you’re sorry. Or to take responsibility, or to even know when you’re wrong.

Surely it’s long past time the supportivers joined with the overwhelming majority of the population and called on the government to leave office.