Comments on: Wasting money on roads?

By: Silly old me

Silly old me — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:14:21 +0000

In this and in another of Mr. Morgenroth’s blogs, he has been asked how the proposed HGV ban (which Meath County Council have pronounced unworkable) would be implemented. Where would the rerouted lorries go? Who will police the ban and how much would such policing cost (bearing in mind that Slane only has a part-time Garda presence). What is to happen with local deliveries, including Grasslands and Roadstone lorries? What does he propose for east-west Navan-Drogheda HGVs which have to route through Slane?

Slane bridge is a 600 year old single-lane bridge, designed for horse and carriage traffic. It is patently unsuitable for HGV traffic. Even if those HGVs which are diverting through Slane to avoid the toll on the M1 were taken out of the equation, heavy traffic from Grasslands and Roadstone, HGVs travelling from Navan to Drogheda on the N51, along with local deliveries to businesses in Slane, would still have to use an unsuitable bridge and a road with a very steep incline which lorries have to negotiate in crawl gear.

Simply stating that the HGV ban SHOULD be put in place, without explaining the means to make it possible to do so, and without addressing all the serious issues which at present prevent the HGV ban being put in place, is tautology and quite a blatant fallacy.

By: ‘Force council to implement HGV ban’ – Meath Chronicle. Letter to the Editor by Vincent Salafia of Save Newgrange | Save Newgrange

Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:47:27 +0000

[...] Morgenrath wrote in The Irish Economy blog on 1st March: “The simple, cheap and obvious solution to the problem of HGVs going through Slane is to ban [...]

By: ‘Force council to implement HGV ban’ – Meath Chronicle. Letter to the Editor by Vincent Salafia of Save Newgrange | Vincent Salafia

Thu, 09 Sep 2010 10:10:28 +0000

[...] Morgenrath wrote in The Irish Economy blog on 1st March: “The simple, cheap and obvious solution to the problem of HGVs going through Slane is to ban [...]

By: ESRI economist Dr Edgar Morgenrath warned N2 Slane bypass was waste of taxpayers’ money in 2009 | Save Newgrange

Mon, 06 Sep 2010 20:45:35 +0000

[...] bypass is a waste of taxpayers’ money. The first post, 1 March 2010, was entitled ‘Wasting money on roads?‘ and said: The simple, cheap and obvious solution to the problem of HGVs going through Slane [...]

By: The Slane bypass is ‘idiotic’ says ERSI economist – Dr Edgar Morgenroth | Vincent Salafia

Sun, 05 Sep 2010 10:44:45 +0000

By: Jim Jones

Jim Jones — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:32:03 +0000

I propose that the M1 should be toll free for HGV’s as is the Poirt Tunnel. This would prevent the HGV’s diverting from the M1 at Dunleer to the N2 at Collon. It would also attract all the HGV’s on the N2 North of Ardee to divert via the N33 on to the M1.
The loss in revenue would negate the need for an expensive bypass.

By: Vincent Salafia

Vincent Salafia — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 01:50:12 +0000

Your common-sense comments on the N2 are very welcome. We will be quoting you at the oral hearing.

I think the County Manager, Tom Dowling, is refusing to implement the HGV ban that was voted for by the Councillors last year, so as to pressurize the Bord into approving the bypass, and also to prevent the real traffic needs being revealed

Meath Chronicle: Council to close Slane Bridge for structural investigation
http://www.savenewgrange.org/?p=26

Controversy over Slane bypass proposal
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2010/0126/1224263115313.html

By: Damian from Marble Cleaning Derbyshire

Damian from Marble Cleaning Derbyshire — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 07:39:16 +0000

@Mark Dowling I believe it only applies to passenger vehicles. I know they wanted to roll it out to include both but not just yet.

By: Edgar Morgenroth

Edgar Morgenroth — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 09:36:50 +0000

@Mark Dowling - you are right, a principle set out by the NRA for the roll out of the PPP road programme is that toll-free alternatives must be available, but that does not mean these have to be national roads. With about 4700 km of roads in Louth and Meath there are plenty of (inconvenient) alternatives. If you look at the situation in Dublin, trucks are essentially forced onto the M50 due to the HGV ban in town.

This is an interesting issue that pops up in other countries too. For example there are universal tools for HGVs on German motorways, which were introduced due to the high level of transit traffic. Many trucks are now diverting onto smaller roads to by-pass the electronic tolls.

By: Mark Dowling

Mark Dowling — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 18:58:25 +0000

My understanding is that tolling requires an untolled alternative route. Does that only apply to passenger vehicles, or is it merely an urban myth entirely?

By: Maurice O'Leary

Maurice O'Leary — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:56:39 +0000

Ban the HGVs going through Slane is the only sane policy.

Sadly the Comptroller and Auditor General is to the best of my knowledge only allowed investigate once the money is spent.

Project evaluation is dominated by politics not economics - which is hardly surprising but explains everything about why “we are where we are”.

By: Edgar Morgenroth

Edgar Morgenroth — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 15:18:25 +0000

@ Pat Donnelly - you are right, properly build roads last longer, but they don’t need to be concrete. In fact most German autobahns are not concrete these days. The local roads in Germany have also suffered during the long winter but when they are fixed they seem to last.

We can’t afford to waste money any more so we should look into doing things right.

By: Pat Donnelly

Pat Donnelly — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 13:10:17 +0000

When roads are properly built they last longer. Check out the autobahn system. Concrete. I hate the concrete lobby but their roads last longer, but maintenance jobs are lost.

Lower costs vs jobs for the boys!

Badly built roads also cost lives. But in a depression, that reduces unemployment…..
Voters are far too impulsive and their votes are easily bought. That costs them money and it flows to those who provide these solutions…

By: Joseph

Joseph — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 07:07:14 +0000

All I know is that most of our existing roads are a national disgrace and those responsible for their maintenance cleary aren’t on any kind of performance related bonus. Or they were and have now had their pay cut reduced.

By: Al

Al — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 20:18:37 +0000

@ Edgar
One area that needs harsh light and a strong microscope is Local Authorities abilities for road building, road repair and an intelligent system.
There was a load of money sent in decades ago from the EU and probably put the kibosh on cost efficiency forever!
Al

By: Con

Con — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:33:06 +0000

The tolling scheme for the M1 was supposedly designed by the NRA to maximise traffic attraction to the tolled route, taking into account analysis suggesting that HGVs were unlikely to divert via the N2 because of the toll charge. If this objective is not being attained, presumably there’s a need to revisit the M1 tolling scheme for HGVs.

By: Edgar Morgenroth

Edgar Morgenroth — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:26:12 +0000

@Colm - yes that would do it too provided the toll is higher on the N2 than the M1. You can’t ban local deliveries but you could apply the same rules as apply in the city centre in Dublin.

By the way on the Last Word someone argued that banning HGVs is a local authority issue but the national routes are the NRA’s business and since they can’t enact a ban the bypass needs to be built!

By: Edgar Morgenroth

Edgar Morgenroth — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:21:43 +0000

@ George - this is not going to be a motorway and from what I can sse it is not going to be tolled. Even if it were tolled, I would contend that we do not need it and that it would be too costly. A toll will never be able to recover the costs - the major cost is the bridge. Currently there are just 6400 vehicles going through Slane. A dual-carriage way will have five times that capacity. Ultimately we need on good network and not two paralel networks.

By: colm mccarthy

colm mccarthy — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:19:36 +0000

Edgar, why not simply a toll (for HGVs only) at Slane, on the existing road? That would shift the through-traffic back to the M1 pronto. You can’t ban local delivery.

By: George

George — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:10:41 +0000

@Edgar
I wonder will the new N2 be tolled too in line with many other similar newly constructed roads. If so whither then the HGVs? In the meantime we could have been building something we really need.