” lecturers in Iots are paid more” really?

The writer agrees that PhDs are not needed in IoTs, but wonders why people holding more common degrees are so well paid.

The point is the lecturers in IoTs are contractually free for the summer, while those in universities are not and are expected to research if not actually teach at that time. Yet lecturers in Iots are paid more, despite the lesser qualifications and the shorter working year.

total nonsense! they need a PG teaching qualification. A PhD doesnt develop the ability to impart knowledge.

“Once the examinations are over in the middle of May, they are not seen again on campus until the 1st of September”.

Good point. In my opinion, all third level institutions should be running a teaching program over the summer. I reckon that each college department should run a series of one or two week programs over the summer months. ( I dont think a conventional teaching term would be suitable).

The Irish Times - Tuesday, September 28, 2010
Teacher’s Pet

An insider’s guide to education

** Speaking of academic pay rates, the following is the text of a letter we received from a senior figure in one of the Institutes of Technology (IOTs).
“In the IoTs, there is no requirement on teaching staff to hold a PhD-level qualifications to be hired, which is as it should be. We have people with trade certificates and basic degrees earning huge amounts of money. There is no expectation on these people to produce any research or do anything other than be present for their basic teaching hours. Once the examinations are over in the middle of May, they are not seen again on campus until the 1st of September, apart from dealing with the exams process, correcting scripts etc, for which they are paid additional, extraordinary sums of money.
“This also applies to Heads of Departments and Schools, probably averaging almost €100,000 pa – these people are here for little more than six months of the year. In short, the rates of academic pay in the IoTs, for a hugely underqualified and underperforming workforce, is nothing short of a national disgrace.”
The academic in question wants to maintain his anonymity. He writes: “I have to work with these people every day, so I would be committing career suicide by going public. I’ve seen too many people who spoke out get isolated over the years. It’s just not worth it.”
Expect this issue to receive considerably more coverage in the coming weeks

It’s the working day for the gintry.

I remember learning, with some horror, that persosn employed in the Great Manufactories are expected to be at their looms (or whatever Engines they have these days) at 8.00am. And then there are those who work all night. And those on four-cycle shift systems. And those without guaranteed hours. What proportion of the population works only from 9.00am to 5.00pm, Monday to Friday?

bjg

That’s what I mean: the colonies. The names the natives give those places are not used; the political, cultural and other differences between them are ignored.

bjg

“If they are paid by the taxpayer then they are rightly open to public scrutiny.”
Fair enough, but they are accountable for what they are paid to do. What Public servants do in their free time is their own business. no one elses.

What Brigid Laffan said about British Tabloids has got nothing to do with anything. She is entitled to voice her opinion, same as anyone else.

I cant comment on this CG’s blog incident. He is a taxpayer, and is raising his family here, so I completely understand the guy having strong feelings on the matter.

I wonder how Brian Lucy or Brigid Laffan or many other lecturers in Irish universities would react to students who disagree with them.
There appears reason to assume some Irish university lecturers can dish it out but are remarkably thin skinned when they are confronted by front on critiscism.

It’s a long time since I passed an Economics exam, so that baffles me (though I know that “emea” is American-speak for “the colonies”). The nearest I can get is to assume that “Jon” = “job” and “worth” = “with”, but I’m still baffled by “chief Marco chap”.

bjg

To answer your question,I dont know is the answer.
What I have observed is the number of academic economists who run blogs and who regularly appear on tv and radio recommending what economic and political actions should be taken.

We have gone through a period where economists tied to various financial institutions were advocating people to buy houses they could nt afford;”….never a better time to buy’..’ etc.
These economists were hard working ,who researched their materiial etc.
But they were kept people and it was in their interest not to reach conclusions which would adversely affect their paychecks.

Similarly during the last Lisbon treaty referendum all the University college heads ,to my knowledge,came out in favour of the treaty and some lecturers became very involved in the YES political campaign (eg Brigid Laffan of UCD).
What bothers me is these lecturers became politiscised in a campaign to change the result of a previous vote and yet there was no apparent dissent in their ranks.

I think Think Tanks along the lines of those in the US might be a better allocation of resources . Academics can make their contributions through these according to their political affiliations and we the public will have a better idea of any agenda they themselves might be pursuing.
For example another academic economist Constantin Gurdiev has posted a political manifesto for a new Ireland on his blog.I dont think taxpayers should be funding academics who involve themselves in politics .
If the colleges were self funding then this critiscism would nt arise.

Again I enjoy and learn a lot from your blog which I will continue to read .

I made the point on previous threads, but decided to play devil’s advocate on this one.
I deal a lot with Mature Students , who are more questioning than school leavers - and consequently get to see their perspective on the university experience.

@KW “Would the Irish taxpayer’s outlay on academic economist salaries be better or worse value for money if we wound down this blog? ”

Easy - Worse. This is a great blog, with great content. Some would argue that this sort of thing is the future of peer review.

Scenario 1: lecturers put in a lot of research and hard work. They tell their students what they’ve learned by teaching courses; they tell their peers what they’ve learned by writing in academic journals.

Scenario 2: lecturers put in a lot of research and hard work. They tell their students what they’ve learned by teaching courses; they tell their peers what they’ve learned by writing in academic journals; they tell the Broad Mass of the Ordinary Working People about it in blogs and on the wireless and in newspapers.

Looks to me like taxpayers benefit. So big it up for the academic bloggers.

bjg

I think that we need to dehomogenise ‘Lecturers’ also.

IOT lecturers on an agreed contract
-Assistant Lecturer 18 lecture hours
-Lecturer 16 lecture hours

University
-Not my cup of tea, perhaps others will input here.
Depends on specialisation/generalisations etc.

I have never seen a TA, in all honesty……
It is also proably worth pointing out that lecture material that remains constant doesnt reflect badly on that particular lecturer.
It isnt necessarily a bad thing in all situations?

Best case: someone who has constantly re-edited their material to a point of contentment and whose focus is on the delivery of the material as an equally important component of the process.

Worst case: static material and delivery as method of minimising work for lecturer.

I cant argue that both examples dont exist….

Ok then, let me ask you a question. Would the Irish taxpayer’s outlay on academic economist salaries be better or worse value for money if we wound down this blog? (Perhaps a good blog\bad blog split may be the appropriate mechanism )

Also, for what it’s worth, I’d point out that many of the contributions on this blog are not written during most people’s definition of the working day. Let’s look at the time-stamp on some of the most recent ones:

This entry was posted on Saturday, September 25th, 2010 at 6:23 pm

This entry was posted on Saturday, September 25th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

This entry was posted on Saturday, September 25th, 2010 at 2:25 am

This entry was posted on Thursday, September 23rd, 2010 at 9:43 pm

This entry was posted on Thursday, September 23rd, 2010 at 8:31 pm

Would we be better off if these folks just watched TV?

I dont dispute lecturers put in a lot of research and hard work but I dont see the benefit to the taxpayer of blogs indirectly financed by the taxpayer.

Many other professions simply dont have the time during the working day to run a blog centred on their expertise so its a fair question t ask.

Lecturers does 2 modules max. If the modules is for a big class they have Teaching Assistants. In my experience it is the TAs who do all the donkey work, not the lecturer.

For STEM subjects there is subject material that has just got to be there. Normal Distribution, Ohm’s law….the material never really changes much at all (well - once every ten years)

[What does "touching" me mean? - stick to your guns!! lets duke it out and go for beers afterwards!]

I have no intention of touching you, but allow me to put some background to the job.

Lecturer ‘A’ delivers a module from a programme. This module will be X weeks long and have an assessment based of exams, and assignments, along with repeats…
The job will be to deliver the module, present and recieve the assignments and exams. Along with this will be contact hours for the students of this module, although nowadays most of this communicaton is done through email.
This module will be reviewed every X years to assess its relevance and this process involves external reviewers.

So, this is one module, and a lecturer could be doing anything from 1-5 per semester. Along with this are other duties- academic council. subcommittess, etc

The notion that lecturers are like airline pilots that arrive, fly the plane and leave is false. There is plenty of stewardess work, mechanics and air traffic control.
If you accept the metaphor…