The third edition is here.
The records of more people have been vetted. Junior and administrative staff have been removed. And Cork has been added. The refined ranking is TCD, (QUB, UCD), (NUIG, UU), (UL, NUIM), DCU, UCC, DIT, NCI.
The main conclusions (here and here) still stand.
I also counted publications in top journals (score 4 according to ABS) by people affiliated to Irish universities. Less than 5% of people have published in these journals (while employed in Ireland); and less than 2% of published papers are in these journals. The scores are as follows: UCD (15), UL (7), NUIG & TCD (6), UCC (5), DCU (4), QUB (3), NUIM (1). Four people published three papers in top journals (while affiliated in Ireland): Patrick Gunnigle (24), Tom Turner (32), Rory O’Shea (74), and William Kingston (109). The number in brackets is their rank on life-time achievement (publication, citations, h-index). While some people want to exclude all but the top journals, I really do not understand that.
I’ll write up the paper now. Comments on the data should be made, by email, within the next two weeks.
24 replies on “Business schools and scholars (3)”
Well done Richard for shining some light on this area. Imperfection and fuzzy data are the norm in social sciences but even wit that one can draw valid and valuable conclusions.
Andrew Oswald’s well-known work is relevant here:
http://austrianeconomists.typepad.com/weblog/files/Prestigeous_Scholarly_Journals.pdf
The business schools of Ireland sure made a huge contribution to the well being of Irish society over the last 5 years. What was that efficient markets theory again ?
@Kevin
Thanks.
“[Oswald] finds that it is better to write the best article published in an issue of a medium quality journal such as the OBES than all four of the worst four articles published in an issue of an elite journal like the AER.”
@Richard
Thanks for the difficult work which is useful. You mis-counted me somewhere since I have at least six publications in top journals. Journal of Economic Theory (1), Journal of Finance (1), Journal of Financial Economics (1), Review of Financial Studies (2), and Journal of Econometrics (1). Do they count? When you said four people published three papers in top journals did you mean exactly three or at least three?
@Gregory
I did not express myself very clearly.
The search was on “journal = top” and “affiliation = ireland”
This was inspired by previous comments that suggested that a BUSINESS SCHOOL derives its reputation from publications in top journals.
The numbers do not apply to people, therefore.
Richard, a question for you. How much does each article cost the exchequer?
@Alchemist
I wish I knew. It is hard to find data on the number of people employed and the total wage bill per department.
The average number of publications is 0.39 per person per year.
Let’s say that the average gross salary is 70,000 euro, and the gross wage costs 100,000 euro. Let’s assume that half of the working time is for research. Then the cost per paper is 130,000 euro.
I would think that 30,000 euro/paper is a good yardstick.
@Richard
Oh yes my mistake – “while employed in Ireland” – I missed that modifier sorry.
@ Richard
The FT produces overall business school rankings for European Business Schools (methodology of what in their view good looks like is referenced).
http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/european-business-school-rankings
Faculty research is one criteria taken into account in compilation of the rankings. UCD has the highest ranking of the Irish Universities.
@ Richard
Why no Economic Researchers in UCC?
@Winston
For the same reason as TCD, UCD, QUB: Economics and business are neatly separated in Cork.
@ Richard
But is it not also “neatly separated” in NUIG?
Also, not really sure what a Business School means then. If an department/group is a member of the Business School then surely it reflects the School. The fact that Economics is not a member of TCD/UCD Business School then it makes sense not to include this. Whereas, Economics in UCC is a department/group in the Business School. Not sure what the situation is in QUB.
The small number of post-docs identified reflects my earlier point that the career path of business academics does not generally include a post doc phase. This affects people’s overall output totals when compared to other disciplines. Your point about four people having published papers in top journals while in Ireland might be modified to 4 people still on the staff of Irish Business schools published papers while in Ireland, others may have cashed in their achievements and moved abroad.
A full professor on €120k p/a and who publishes every year in both the AER and Econometrica fails miserably by this yardstick.
@Enda H
No. Half of her time is for other things than research, so she is right on the mark.
Mind you, the people who publish below average in quantity also tend to be below average in quality.
Come on. Such a hypothetical would get tenure at Harvard even if she were late for the the review meeting and then farted in the general direction of the Dean.
I think your benchmark is far too high to be realistic for Irish universities.
@Enda H
A PhD student is supposed to write three papers in three years — that’s roughly 30,000 euro/paper. So why can’t a faculty member do the same? They’re more experienced, and presumably only the better ones stay in academia.
You don’t correct for quality of publication, either. That’s my major qualm. I’m really not one of the “quality cannot ever and should not ever be even thought about” gang, but that yardstick is ludicrously blunt. One Econometrica paper p/a would rightly get you tenure anywhere in the world, but falls short of your benchmark. That’s a silly benchmark.
In addition, such “two a year”-type counting exercises create terrible incentives.
I take your point if you were giving a very rough figure to The Alchemist as to what’s expected, broadly speaking, at the top of academia. But I do not think that even places like TCD/UCD can reasonably expect that as their benchmark.
Why do book and book chapters based on research not count as publication output?
I know that within my sub-discipline (consumer behaviour) they are regarded highly.
Why are journal articles that are not listed in scopus not included in the data?
I am sure that including both of these types of publication would make the report less dramatic.
@Norah
Scopus is the best database for this crowd.
You are, of course, free to collect the CVs of 800 people and count all their major and minor publications. In fact, I would encourage you to do so. Research evaluations, like most things, are better if done competitively.
@Enda H
I’ve no objections whatsoever to appropriate quality weights.
However, we invest taxpayer’s money into these people and therefore should demand a return. If Ireland-based researchers cannot live up to international standards, then I’d rather invest the money elsewhere.
@ Richard
Why do you count Economics for NUIG and not for UCC?
Also, not really sure what a Business School means then. If an department/group is a member of the Business School then surely it reflects the School. The fact that Economics is not a member of TCD/UCD Business School then it makes sense not to include this. Whereas, Economics in UCC is a department/group in the Business School. Not sure what the situation is in QUB.
As an expat (teaching business), I truly envy the time you have to bicker!
We are too d**n busy earning a crust in the post-911world of banking evil!
(YES! The banks have brought down a lot of buildings!).
Any tenure-traced jobs going in my homeland>
Eamonn O’Ein