Nobody ever compares the NHS to the HSE. With the former your primary healthcare is looked after and you only pay a nominal few quid for medicines (nil in devolved countries I think).

“Going forward” can we compare the quality of services here to UK services rather than just wages? Of average pay at least…

Oddly enough I got a job with a Greek company even though classical Greek bears little resemblance to modern Greek, the fact that I could read the script was enough. Through that job I finished up having to translate technical data from Danish, Dutch and French on the fly with just a dictionary. In other jobs I picked up Spanish and finished up with French and English. Once you make the jump and apply yourself the world opens up. I have had dozens of technical and language courses most paid for by employers but some by myself so as I could make the next jump. I married a German which opened my eyes to what can be done, she operates in German, French, English and Spanish her sister operates in German French, Spanish and Russian. By operate I mean they worked for large corporations and governments using those languages. I agree the attitude to the teaching of foreign languages in the English speaking countries is atrocious. If you are ever unemployed move to the country that interests you, take night courses and try to get a job any job the combination of the two will improve your language skills in a very short time.

@Mickey Hickey that was my point made simpler really - in the 90s as a secondary school kid I was heavily encouraged to take a Euro language but myself and many contemporaries don’t have the level of speaking another language to emigrate within the EU.

Surely this is an issue? It might be an easy target but our culture is very Brit/American influenced & the Scandinavian & other EU societies are regarded as exotic.

Is there policy deficiency here?

http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-college-graduates-to-be-cryogenically-frozen-u,17034/

One thing that is a change to the past is the number of foreign workers. I heard 75% of those working in Google in Dublin are from abroad. I’m sure they will have a different value of P to Irish born people.

But the gov’t won’t notice this.

This goes to the heart of the matter of what lessons were learned from the 1980s. Answer: none. not a single one.

I don’t like your variable E, I think the equation should be: Irish [w(1-t) + b + P] = overseas [w(1-t) + b + P]. The Irish variables are understood to all Irish, but the foreign variables would to someone living in Ireland be estimates. Also there is a cost to expatriating, say C.

So maybe: Irish [w(1-t) + b + P] = estimated overseas [w(1-t) + b + P] - C

The equation would also have to be individualized as it would be quite different for different individuals. It would also be very different for immigrants to Ireland. As estimates could be optimistic or pessimistic you could add a certain herd mentality as people start to leave, more people will adjust their estimates in favor of leaving. As Irish communities appear abroad, estimated overseas P would improve.

“There are fixed costs to running a state, and the debts we are now being saddled with are not population-dependent.”

What are the fixed costs? For example Ireland seems to have gotten away with not having much military spending. I think that needs explaining.

The debts not being population dependent is interesting as you could say people will leave Ireland to avoid paying their share. This should increase as the number of people leave, and the share of debt per person increases. Maybe there should be a worldwide income tax on the Irish to capture those funds wherever they flee to, the US government does this and evidently gets away with it.

The British govt. seems to have hinted that they don’t want half of Ireland flooding Holyhead & they have their own problems as is with secure employment.

How many qualified graduates have a fluent European language? During the 90s when everyone was giddy about being Irish and European you did a Euro language in secondary school presumably with the idea of providing a base to then expand horizons, greater European integration etc.

Has this happened? Comparing Ireland to say the Scandinavian countries where most have a grasp of multiple languages seems odd. I could be wrong but most are still relying solely on English so this leaves say Canada, USA, UK & Australia?

Aside from the “mobility” of Irish people what about the visa and labour controls? It’s not like the 50s when boat loads of men can go to England to build stuff. There’s also migration of workers from Asia and mid east to compete with.

I think the ESRI spoke of figures of about 100,000 emigrating but how many will be permanent like Libero? Many I know who are emigrating/have emigrated to Aus or Canada or USA are essentially just on a year’s holiday working menial jobs where their degree isn’t much use.

Finally, on the subject of value of public services balanced out with taxes, this is a good point and surely needs plenty of debate. Taxes are going up but it’s doubtful the quality of services will and since they’ve been the subject of much ridicule during the boom will anything change? You can’t have low taxes and high quality public services.

I read a quote from a Volvo exec in Sweden recently:

“Why don’t you leave (Sweden)? Certainly, you would pay a lot lower taxes and probably also have a higher salary in the U.S.”, he responded, “Yes, of course, I would have a lot more money in my pocket. But I would also almost never get home before 7 o’clock and I certainly would not have the vacations everyone has a right to here… and you know what else, I would have to spend a lot more money on insurance, college for my kids, and travel back home to my family. In the end, I’m not really sure I would be any better off.”

An intensive ESRI study on voters after the 2002 election found that many felt that while the state of the health service and the cost of living going up was the fault of the FF/PD govt. (equally) they too thought that economic prosperity was also the result of their policies. When asked if they felt any other party would have made much different impact on the health, infrastructure, inflation etc. a majority in nearly all cases said they didn’t (think any other party would make much difference)

There seems to be a vacum in Irish politics and a gulf in society between what people want and what they get out of the political system.

Michael O’Sullivan said recently on Prime Time that these austerity budgets are likely to produce a very “un-European looking society”. Considering there’s little to no sense of hope or of direction ie. where are we going it’s hard to see how anyone will put up with higher taxes without better service while putting up with lower wages (half of all earners are on about 33k or less).

About the only thing that might make a difference for graduates and younger people is if housing costs were to decline much more than they already have. That won’t help most older people with skills and increasing negative equity.

NZ has faced a consistent exodus of its own people after its economic decline from the 1970s, but has always been able to more than replace the outflow when it has wanted to. I presume EU restrictions impose more limitations on Ireland’s freedom of action re immigration, but there are lots of poorer Europeans too.

I would give the bond holders a very good adjustment . The whole global financial system is lunacy anyway. I have before me a report by McKinsey which shows the growth of US financial assets compared to the real economy and GDP . In 1980 the ratio was 100% - financial assets to GDP. By 2007 it had risen to 300%. Where are the bond coupons supposed to come from now that the magic credit machine has been turned off? What is to stop massively inflated property prices from falling now that banks are in deleverage mode?

Maybe Ireland is getting the experience ahead of everyone else. I wouldn’t value any bond in a global bank at par myself.

we will see

oiche mhaith poball na Gaeilge agus gach duine eile san sean Tir seo

Excellent post.

Are you arguing for a swifter adjustment to reduce the later debt burden?

Paul Moran, Sandyford, Dublin

We dealt with greater madness than this and we refused to be afraid and hence we made a world class international called the Good Friday Agreement

We voted on lisbon and we said NO on instinct
I assert that Lisbon 2 is bogus, was coerced and as we can see, was bogus

Are we still using the coin of rome?
THINGS CHANGE, HECK YOU CANNOT SAY WE DIDN’T TRY

W E A R E O U T

Ireland has to look after Ireland
goodbye Berlin and hello Boston

the new 2011 Atlantic Alliance, Canada, USA, Iceland, Ireland, Great Britain

courage my brothers and sisters
we tried, they failed

we will not accept any malfeasance

Paul Moran, Sandyford, Dublin

Paul Moran, Sandyford, Dublin,
Fine Gael and Labour in government now
restore tolerant inclusive democracy in Ireland

how you treat my three sons in this Versailles moment will decide how each one of you will be personally and individually will be remembered in the history departments of the world for the rest of time

Paul Moran Sandyford Dublin