Electric vehicles

I agree Tol – better off promoting the new super efficient diesels coming on the market & as a competitor to urban electric ultra small Smart like petrols.
It might make some marginal sense for the French to go down this electric road as they have a surplus of base load in the wee small hours but not for the increasing Irish Gas / wind setup.
Increase the price of juice to the British level………..

PS you might just make it to Killarney from Cork if you freewheel it down the Kerry side of the barricades but if you got a westerly wind you’d be F……

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TehFZ38kt6o

However, the investment by the ESB is pointless. Instead, they could have paid the money as a dividend to the government.

I don’t know why we never moved beyond the horse and cart. I’m sure that a Richard O’Tol was vehement that the automobile had no future…

This generation of electric cars don’t really work so well

The subsidy should sooner be given to R&D…developing world class battery research in Ireland would be a much better idea.

“Car buyers are apparently not impressed by the subsidies and tax breaks on offer”

…. and there I was thinking it’s because the cars are crap. You learn something new every day.

@EWI
So, ESB learning how to install off-the-shelf, manufactured-by-others juice points will revolutionize transport?

ESB justifies the investment by “collect[ing] data on consumer behaviour and trend”. That is weird, because (a) there are few consumers and (b) ESB has a poor understanding of electricity use in the home.

@PR
I should have written: Car buyers apparently think that the subsidies and tax breaks on offer are insufficient to compensate for the (perceived) drawbacks of the electric vehicles on the market.

Richard, I am disappointed.

One-in-ten electric cars by 2020 implies sales of 15k to 20k per annum. You fail to understand that the only weakness in the policy is that the subsidies are too low.

In ireland, when policies fail, this is evidence-based support for an intensification of policy.

This is not the Netherlands.

@Colm
Sorry.

Kevin Murray suggested that we should give away 10 EVs a week in the National Lottery. I think we should do another 10 via Winning Streak. And all Garda cars should be replaced.

Let me see for a price of a Leaf

I can buy a 5 year old German 4×4 SUV (courtesy of recession and develoeprs going bust!) with a v8 and 330+ horsepower, pay insurance for this sports car, and high rate of tax AND fuel the 21mpg beast for a few years.

So on one hand i can ride in an overglorified Micra and risk my life in this electric buggy, not being able to cross the country (west to east) in a day without stopping for charging or I can ride around in safety, comfort and style, while also having fun and can get to Dublin in 1hr10 (breaking the speed limit of course :D)

Hmm choices choices

… Or if I really cared about my wallet and the environment I could just get a few year old diesel

People are not that stupid (recent recession could be used as counterpoint of course!), the Greens here in Ireland operated on “people are stupid lets nanny state them with more taxes and behavioural modification incentives” which got them booted out by the electorate.

Of course as battery technology increases, range and price will decrease significantly. Once price is on a par with the average petrol/diesel car I’d imagine we’ll see a big up take, as the price of running the cars (including maintenance) is really low in comparison, unless the price of oil drops 50% or so.

I’d imagine ecars sales are on an exponential curve.

range will increase

Gurdiev had an article on this subject back in 2010

http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/2010/07/economics-14710-car-registrations.html

I know, let’s give on to every TD and then remove their mileage allowances (since it is free to recharge).

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article30998.html

Worth a read, though I disagree on the future of battery tech.

@ hoganmahew

Great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@ Hogan
+1

Maybe we can research the next generation vehicle with someway of fueling the car with a snorkel attachment to their mouths..

@colm mccarthy

‘In ireland, when policies fail, this is evidence-based support for an intensification of policy.’

(No comment necessary.)

A quick google didn’t turn up a breakdown of running costs ..

Has anyone published a (recent) comparison of net retail current-expenditure costs of commuting in one of these things?

I suspect most commuters would only find viable a recharge-at-home option,
but there’s no info on what’s involved there .. plug it into the cooker socket on a long extension cable out the window?

I spend about €40/week on petrol, €21.50/week on luas tickets, €0 on parking .. I wonder how many KwH that €40 gets me, and what that would cost in terms of night-rate home recharge ? …

I used an ecar calculator and an esb site (can find it now) for the same amount. €40 a week on petrol in an average new 1.3L would be somewhere around €6 in electricity costs for the Mistibushi iMev.

# David O’Donnell Says:

@colm mccarthy

‘In ireland, when policies fail, this is evidence-based support for an intensification of policy.’

(No comment necessary.)

+2, Vey nice David, but to pull out my favourite recent Krugman quote “It would all be hilariously funny if these people weren’t destroying the world.”.

What contracts has the EIB signed this year in Ireland ? none in a Industrial vacuum.

and if you play around with the dates, very little on a relative basis since the start of the economic crisis

http://www.eib.org/projects/loans/regions/european-union/index.htm

Whats the deal ? we bail out the euro banking sector and get what exactly ?
Here are some examples of really poor countries getting recent car unfriendly EIB infrastructure loans……..

http://www.rail.co/2011/04/…/eib-helps-fund-helsinki-westmetro-extension...

http://www.rail.co/…/manchester-metrolink-extension-gets-500m-eib-supp...

http://www.rail.co/2011/03/…/borders-railway-gets-european-financial-boo...

theres much more but the piece the resistance is the loan to the struggling French rail system.
http://www.rail.co/…/brittany-loire-region-high-speed-rail-line-receives-e5...

These are all peripheral rich country areas – we are not talking about major Alpine tunneling projects and the like.
Maybe they recognize our state utility & transport sectors are just not up to it.
Maybe our diplomatic service has collapsed.
Maybe they just don’t like us anymore
Maybe it was all Dustins fault.

piece de resistance – pardon my French.

@Shay Begorrah

I also like the return of ‘fictitious capital’ – ‘money made out of money made out of money – and bill the serfs –

… but it is obvious that no_one in the ECB has read Marx (with the possibl exception of the Gov’nor in his youth – but he forgot to inhale!)

There has certainly been an excess of “fictitious” capital created over the last two decades, far more than Marx, or anyone else, could have anticipated. Money made out of the money made out of money. $600 trillion of derivatives. High frequency trading insanity with trades reduced to micro-seconds. As Adam Curtis observes in his excellent documentary “All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace”, the heart of the insanity has been the belief that systems run by machines are inherently more stable than systems with humans at the centre. This has greatly skewed the system towards the egregious self interests of capital, as against labour. Curtis lays much of this greed at the feet of Ayn Rand and Alan Greenspan.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/marx-versus-capitalism-versus-you.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NakedCapitalism+%28naked+capitalism%29

Got it in One: Fictitious Capital the EZ solution – and Oh – ban all those derivatives ….

A PDF document of EIB activities in Ireland in recent years….
Very small beer really.
http://www.eib.org/attachments/country/factsheet_ireland_2010_en.pdf

But exactly zero activity as far as I can tell for 2011 – you could hear a pin drop.
Also check out this nice interactive device.
http://www.eib.org/projects/pipeline/
I can find no Irish projects on this format using pretty much all dates from 2001 and various parameters while other countries projects are clear to see.
In the explanatory notes it states………..

“Which projects are not included in the list?
All projects are included in the list unless the project promoter (or other business partners where appropriate) oppose inclusion on justified grounds of commercial/market confidentiality.”

It seems Paul Hunts meticulous observations may have some substance to them.
Why are no Irish projects on this device ?
Is the EIB now avoiding this cowboy & Indians death valley economy ?
I have no idea really.
But would appreciate some answers from the great & good on this site.

@Richard Tol

For the record electric cars are an interesting technology with clear social and possible environmental benefits but money might indeed better be channelled towards research. I wonder whether the vehicles that would offer the biggest room for improvement are not private vehicles but our noisy, smelly, dirty, buses (I know, charging time).

Car buyers are apparently not impressed by the subsidies and tax breaks on offer, and the exchequer is not losing any money on this scheme.

I am indifferent to the purchasing preferences of car owners, if it was not politically unpopular to price in those good old negative externalities of the internal combustion engine (I think noise is the one most neglected now) the usage of electric vehicles might start to seem like a more attractive option for city dwellers.

@David O’Donnell

Adam Curtis observes in his excellent documentary “All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace”, the heart of the insanity has been the belief that systems run by machines are inherently more stable than systems with humans at the centre.

The off topic Klaxon (or Karlhwhelon, if you will) is sounding…..

Curtis was struggling to find a central theme with “All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace”, brilliantly entertaining though it was, though the bit of boot putting into libertarian heroes was fun (did he take a swipe at good old Milton F?).

My own pet theory (mouse wheel noise) is about the how the costs of complexity and instability have been neglected in evaluating the benefits of the current trend towards markets and financial instruments for everything. This multiplication of markets for every resource that were supposed to allow homo-economicus, and his only follower on earth, the worker in the financial sector, to maximize their utility has had an ever increasing cost in comprehension time leading to market participants having no real idea what is going on and a financial system so complex that small input changes can have absurdly exaggerated outcomes. Self stabilizing it aint.

High frequency automated trading and the various derivatives bombs are notable examples of how participants have tried to respectively exploit and hedge against the ensuing loss of order and comprehensibility. A transaction tax, a ban on naked CDSs and other attempts to reduce the number of variables in the financial system could therefore have real economic benefits as considered and rational analysis is allowed back into markets, though not as many as the partial return to a democratic command economy that the west needs.

This is to a degree a trend in software, where I work, where there is an increasing emphasis on trying to produce large systems that are comprehensible at their various levels of operation. The idea being that it is not enough that a system works, you must be confidant in your ability to modify it and still have it working. Exactly unlike the current international financial system.

@Shay

As you understand software – a small step to understanding that the financial system is completely out of control … and beyond the understanding of mere humans – Matrix is most apt metaphor I can think of … it may even (probably) have/has morphed into a complex adaptive system whose sole focus is its own continouus growth until it has exhaused all the bio_energy in the seven billion bodies available …

Sometime a little ‘bug’ may have devastating consequences … Blind Biddy has initiated a little R&D …

How does get from the observation that “EV incentives are not working” to “ban all financial derivatives” demagoguery?

“And all Garda cars should be replaced.” Yep! Best suggestion of the day!

“This generation of electric cars don’t really work so well” Yep! Yep!

I’ve two tonnes of heavymetal in my driveway. Can get to Kenmare (@ 60 mph) and back on a full tank, with a smidgen to spare. Four adults, and kitchen sink in rere! Would not like to try that with those pissy little EVs. Its 80 km at 50 km: one adult, billard table flat tarmac, and no holdups.

The French were very good at early EVs.

It will prove, after some further gothic-style, heroic failures, that those parallel steel rails do the business a tad better.

Someone quoted PK: How’s this? “Never underestimate the destructive power of bad ideas” NYT: 12:10:09.

Brian Snr.

@Richard

“And all Garda cars should be replaced.”

This is an excellent idea, doubly so from a green perspective. After they have been outrun by the illegal diesel smuggling tankers, they could get back to finishing the milk round they would have been doing beforehand instead of just driving around waiting for another call to go after some crims.

Electromobility needs manufacturers but it also needs a an integrated infrastructure. Integrating that infrastructure requires a high level of cost efficient skills which are not actually that easy to “match up” in Europe.

Despite the constant assumption that Irish salaries are too high the productivity and output of the Irish private sector compares very favourably with labour costs. Electromobility integration is just one of the areas where Ireland has been quietly competing in providing cost effective and reliable internationally traded services.

This was also the case in the 1990’s when Irish companies were able to provide efficient services and logistics at international level (which I had first hand experience of) while still paying higher wages to the highly skilled employees carrying out the work. Believe it or not even at one stage State owned Irish companies could even compete sucessfully in international projects while still paying decent wages.

After 1999 demand at home (Ireland) began to restrict the ability of Irish companies to provide these services at international level. Towards the middle of “noughties” efficiency in Ireland also started to decleine slightly which coincided with increased immigration in order to meet domestic demand.

However since 2008 this has slowly been changing and many projects often have an unseen (private sector)Irish involvement when there is a need for cost effective highly skilled delivery. Once again I have also found myself participating and advising in the delivery of a variety of complex services by Irish entities which need high levels of skills.

While many people (paricularly, for mobility reasons, members of the Public Service ) in Ireland do not have an opportunity to see these silent examples the hospitality industry in Ireland provides a ready made opportunity to make comparisons. While wages and prices are much higher in Ireland than many European countries the difference in efficiency is huge.

Most Irish people do not notice this because we tend to be patient and are temporarily delighted to be paying cheap prices so ignore the “cheap quality” received when we on a mini break in Europe. (No doubt “lubrication” may also interfere with our ability, or interest, in making comparisons).

As I only have experience of “one side of the bar” when it comes to the hospitality industry I recently enquired about this phenomenon with an Irish executive who works with an international chain of hotels .

During the discussions it quickly became apparent to us that despite the fact that a hospitality worker in Ireland may take home five times as much money as in most of the “cheapest” European destinations after one factors in skill, supervision, coordination, additional work related costs and delivery the actual overall labour cost involved in providing hospitality services (ie lunch time trade etc) is actually not high at all.

Consequently it is not surprising that most influential members of Fine Gael (ie Noonan et al) were just as determined as most of the Labour Party to reverse the minimum wage which a desperate and confused Pianna Fail reduced before they left office. Low wages do not result in lower labour costs when measured against output.

Apologies if I (sort of) went off topic. 🙂

Whether they will be successful or not you can really feel the Magnificent French Bureaucracy moving with all speed when going through the EIB investments – sure it has become excessively corporatist since the 90s but………….. its all hands on deck now – meanwhile the once vaunted Royal Navy is a shadow of itself after the disastrous Edinburgh tram engagement – sad very sad.
http://www.eib.org/projects/pipeline/2011/20110173.htm
http://www.eib.org/projects/pipeline/2010/20100263.htm
http://www.eib.org/projects/pipeline/2009/20090446.htm
http://www.eib.europa.eu/projects/pipeline/2009/20090159.htm
http://www.eib.org/projects/pipeline/2007/20070105.htm
http://www.eib.org/projects/pipeline/2009/20090270.htm
http://www.eib.org/projects/pipeline/2011/20110184.htm
http://www.eib.org/projects/pipeline/2010/20100404.htm

French freemasonry is so much more can do then the dour second hand Scottish version of reality that is projected into our little Irish heads.

As I see it crude oil is relatively cheap currently, how long this will last is problematic but the trend will certainly be up. Gas is cheap and getting cheaper on a world wide basis and with transport in liquefied form by ship the market is no longer local. Electricity in most markets that are pricing by time of day is economic from 2100 to 0700 (overnight) which facilitates electric vehicles that have a range of over 60 km as it would accommodate a good portion of the commuter market.

The Toyota Prius hybrid with a petrol generator and reserve batteries is now a viable commuter vehicle. When they roll out the version that can be charged overnight with a range of 50 km on the charge with a range of 300+ km on the petrol generator then they will garner a good portion of the Green Vehicle market when petrol goes over 5 Euros per litre.

It is too early to bet the farm on alternative fuel vehicles because of the uncertainty surrounding pricing of conventional fuels over the next ten years. Manufacturers have to gain experience so they will continue to develop and produce vehicles for the early adopters, also known as the bleeding edge for good reasons. The Toyota Prius has been on the market for ten years now and is a proven product with a battery life of 6 to 8 years and a replacement cost of Euro 4,000 + or- for the lithium battery pack. It has been a moderate sales success.

The Smart makes shivers go up and down my spine whenever I see one on the Autobahn with Mercedes sweeping around them at 150 kph+.

The smartest thing governments can do is build electric tracked commuter infrastructure and in Ireland’s case intercity electric trains that can consistently go 150 kph. China is a world leader on both of these fronts for the past few years. Even Saudi Arabia is building tracked infrastructure in the densely populated parts of Riyadh.

As for Ireland, it is truly pitiful how the government neglected building tracked transport infrastructure in Dublin and Cork (Luas notwithstanding). Traveling in Munich, Frankfurt, Berlin and even along the sparsely populated Baltic coast from Greifswald to Ahlbeck makes Ireland look extremely lacking in convenient and efficient tracked transport.

@ MH: “when petrol goes over 5 Euros per litre.”

AND

“(When) a replacement cost of Euro 4,000 + or- for the lithium battery pack (goes over E 8,000!!!) 😎

Should be fun.

I’m not sure I would shove the entire blame for the neglect of ‘tracked infrastructure’ (lovely phrase) onto our so-called govs. I have a bad suspicion that there are some other serious slugs involved. “By their trails ye shall know them.”

Brian Snr.

I’m surprised by the comment in the original post that the ESB’s investment in charging points is a waste. The broad consensus in the motor industry at the moment is that electric vehicles are the future. The current generation of full EVs may not be there yet, but I think over the next few years full hybrids and plug-in hybrids will become more popular eventually making ways for general acceptance of full EVs.

We will never get to that point if there is not a widely available network of charging points. Given that the ESB is the largest electricity utility in the state, surely it is perfectly logical for it to try to encourage the take up of plug-in hybrids and full EVs by providing this network. If in 30 years every vehicle in the state is charged via the electricity network, this would be a huge boon for the ESB so it would be negligent and short-sighted of the present management and board not to encourage that.

@Carson
a perfectly valid argument, if the opportunity cost of capital were zero

Here’s a review of European EV sales to date and a comparison of national subsidies. The market is clearly very immature with tiny worldwide production capacity of approx 50K vehicles this year. Policy of national governments is to encourage manufacturers to invest in electric vehicle research.

A number of groups are working on ultrafast chargers (sub 5 minutes) based on capacitor discharge. This Japanese company, for example, has a patent and a working prototye.

Battery cost per KWh is falling; Boston consulting group estimates that battery costs will fall 65% for electric vehicles by 2020.

So the two major drawbacks of electric vehicles -recharge time and cost – are fading.

It’s easy to suggest that government should stay out of the transport market but in practice, consumer transport choices are determined by state policies on spatial planning, by infrastructure priorities for private or public transport, by fuel and vehicle taxes, by legislation on insurance and licensing and countless other ways.

@Carson: “If in 30 years every vehicle in the state is charged via the electricity network, …”

And …how will that elec be generated?

@ OS: “So the two major drawbacks of electric vehicles -recharge time and cost – are fading.”

The third being … … ? Distance v speed v load capacity. What model of personal transport is the Model-in-Use?

Brian Snr.

@Brian Snr
I agree that energy density/range is a hurdle. Also EVs, no matter how advanced, will still come with the accidents and congestion associated with regular cars.

@OS: Thanks for comment.

What I get a bit exercised about when I read commentary on EVs, so-calleg renewables (reusable is more apt) and ‘Green Solutions’ is the absence of reality about the nature of energy, how we get it, how we use it and the absolute dependency of the current economic Model-in-Use on a ready supply of fossil fuel (esp liquid form).

Economists (mostly anyway) do not do energy. Our politicians are completely (or give that impression) of complete clueness. The MSM cannot be relied upon to give factually accurate data – they can and do, but you have to a a clue yourself. I will assume that the bureauracy DOES know what is involved, in respect of energy. So, it is an open question as to what advice they are actually giving.

What is glaringly obvious is that most folk think about energy in terms of monetary cost (and opportunity cost) – when in fact you have to consider energy in terms of the cost in energy units of extraction, processing and delivery. These costs are increasing! Worse, the internal consumption of energy for domestic purposes by the major producers is rising faster than new resources are coming to production – and the existing resources are in decline anyway.

If we use 100 units of energy, as we stand, and we wish to build-out a new infrastructure to handle a fleet of EVs, we have to reduce our current use and set aside some of the energy to do the build out. There is no ‘Energy Bank’ with virtual energy units to lend out as credit that we can pay back later – with virtual energy interest. Energy interest is taken out at the start – frontloaded, I believe the term is, and there are also significant ‘deductictions’ as you go along.

Nice steep energy learning curve ahead!

Brian Snr.

Shock horror! Electricity company tries to grow demand for electricity! Whatever next.

@Eoin: “Shock horror! Electricity company tries to grow demand for electricity! Whatever next.”

Maybe do what companies like HydroQuebec do? Invest in electric public transportation, not driveway/parking space queens? The Interconnector and Metro are now a long way off but extension of the Connolly Station-side DART network to Maynooth is doable with a lot less cash.

EVs should be limited to Dublin City based delivery or other public service vehicles with a tight network of charge points.

Of course Electric Vehicles are not selling well, the reason is simple. We are trying to introduce a new technology into an environment that has no easy access to resources for it. There are other problems too, the lack of a car with a decent range, the lack of charge points and then the time it takes to get a full charge, that can be 8 hours or more.
Planning a trip in an electric car would be quite a challenge.

The Hydrogen fuel Cell is a far better idea, but apparently it is very expensive to produce the most abundant element in the Universe.

Then there’s the other problem of forgotten ideas, the original Diesel was built to run on Peanut Oil and was not a big polluter, Diesel Technology can be modified to run on other oils, it’s not entirely restriced to the Perrolium Derivative.

For anyone wondering where the idea of the state promoting electric cars comes from…

The Energy Services Directive (2006/32/EC) requires Ireland to reduce energy use by 9% over 9 years. We have to submit a National Energy Efficiency Action Plan with measures for energy use reduction. The latest NEEAP was written this year with 6 actions to reduce energy in transport. Amongst them was support for electric vehicles (EVs are twice as efficient as petrol cars – even taking into account energy losses from extraction electricity generation and distribution.)

What is the best mix policies to reduce energy use in Ireland? I feel that improving facilities for pedestrians and cyclists and legislating for car clubs would be cost effective policies.

The next NEEAP is due in 2014.

@ Ossian: “What is the best mix policies to reduce energy use in Ireland?”

The proposal to reduce energy is in effect a directive to reduce your G*P. Now we have one of those in effect at the mo. So lets just pause, wait and see what the situation with regard to energy us is this time in 2012.

EVs are TWICE as efficient as ICEs? News to me, but if you have the info please list the sources. Thanks.

NEEP rhymes with CREEP. No likee!!

Brian Snr.

@BWS & @OS
The Energy Services Directive is really about improving energy efficiency rather than absolute reductions in energy use. The Directive defines energy efficiency as;

“‘energy efficiency’: a ratio between an output of performance, service, goods or energy, and an input of energy;”

So if you improve your energy efficiency you can increase your output using the same or less energy. On the other hand, if your output decreases and your energy use doesn’t, or decreases at a lower rate, then you will have a worsening of energy efficiency.

At the end of 2010, output as measured by GDP had decreased by approximately 11% since 2007. At the same time overall energy use fell by 9%. Have we already reached the magical Directive target. No, because output fell faster than energy use and we had a worsening of energy efficiency.

Actually it was a worsening of energy intensity, real energy efficiency is more complicated but intensity is a good proxy to illustrate the point.

@Brian
My apologies, when I said ‘reduce energy use’ I should have said ‘improve energy efficiency’. The idea is to do the same amount of useful work while consuming less energy. If a man walks to work rather than drives a 5 litre car through a traffic jam at walking speed, the same useful work is done but the fuel savings are spent or invested elsewhere so that GDP is not reduced.

Very roughly, these are the efficiencies for petrol vs electric cars.

Petrol engine
Well-pump: 82% efficient
Pump-wheel: 20% efficient

Total: 16.4%

EV
Natural gas extraction & processing: 95%
Electricty generation from gas: 60%
Grid transmission/distribution: 92%
Charging: 80%
Battery-wheel: 80%

Total 33.6%

Other benefits: urban air quality improved, noise pollution reduced, less dependence on stability of oil producing nations

We are still very much at trial stage but there is some promise.

@ BE + Ossian: Apologies for any delay in replying: Day job and all!

BE: You raise a very vexing issue. Most non-engineering folk would be asleep in 10 seconds flat if you attempted to instruct them about these two concepts. I know, I keep trying, to little avail. What did Mr Relativity himself say about attempting the same thing again and again, but expecting a different outcome? Intensity is a somewhat, virtual concept. Efficiency is a concrete (engineering and immutable laws of physics) one. Latter dictates!

Ossian: Thanks for that. Efficiency (my limited version!) => moving two tonnes of heavy metal at 60 mph (I know, I know – but its what I know!) from Dublin to Kerry! Like I mentioned to BE (lovely moniker by the way – beautiful engineering is a bigend) you have to reduce the info to congnitively edible portions – for your ‘common woman’. Think hand (or should that be arm) bags. Ever notice the SIZE of the things?

Now translate that to personal transport. We’re on a big loser here! It was ‘your woman’ who persuaded ‘your man’ to nibble on that apple!

Thanks again (both).

Brian Snr.

@BWS
Well done on spotting the engineering reference in the moniker.

The objective of travelling from Dublin to Kerry is to get you from A to B. Whether you take two tonnes of heavy metal with you or not is part of the efficiency equation. The other part of the equations is how much of the available energy you allow to be wasted out the exhaust pipe.

So there are ways to achieve an objective using less energy but it will take some engineer to design an even more beautiful bigend or perhaps eliminate the bigend altogether!!

@BE: Yep.

I think the ‘Greenies’, ‘Renewers’ and ‘Sustainers’ have a very big uphill struggle to convince folk to purchase EVs in any economically viable number. The psychiatrists had a bonanza when they came to analyse Man and Motor. Beats, the U-know-what envy every time! That’s the hurdle you have to surmount.

Some of my favourite pieces of engineering are those steam driven Beam Engines. Incredible design and craftmanship.

Brian Snr.

Coin, note or credit card operated on/off stations can be found all over the place as in laundries, shower stalls, public telephones, parking meters. In cold climate countries (-20C or lower overnight) overnight plug ins for engine block heaters are found in overnight parking lots particularly at hotels/motels. There is no reason for the ESB or the Gov’t to get into the battery charging business.

Toyota has the model that works in the Prius with its range of over 300 km, reserve battery and soon the ability to charge overnight to a 50 km plus range. As demand for out of driveway charging increases the cost of entry to provide it is not onerous and there is no need for Gov’t intervention. First we transition via hybrid (petrol/battery) to a position where we develop the critical mass that cost justifies out of driveway charging stations.

I do not understand why the first solution for everything in Ireland is to suck the Govt’s teat. I have relatives in the bar business who are looking forward to the day where they put in charging stations and are able to say “Ah sure Sean boy your two hour charge isn’t up yet, have another pint.”.

50 replies on “Electric vehicles”