This entry was posted
on Monday, November 25th, 2013 at 8:02 am and is filed under Inequality.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
“Le corps électoral a été plus sensible aux arguments du Conseil fédéral, des patrons et de la droite. La crainte d’entraver la bonne marche de l’économie helvétique en imposant un carcan aux revenus des dirigeants a prévalu sur les considérations morales autour des dérives salariales constatées ces dernières années.”
The Swiss used to be very sound on these types of question but the golf clubs were shocked with the state of the banks in 2009. The passing of the Minder Initiative on tearing the arse out of it after a senior businessman was awarded a golden parachute of 60m euro came as quite a shock. There seems to be an issue with increased remuneration at a time when share prices are not going anywhere. UBS shares used to be the bluest of blue chip and you always got the dividend. But value is such a nebulous concept these days.
I’m not sure what seafoid does but, honestly, it can’t be a real job. The number of times he posts on this blog with links to stuff he has read on the internet suggests he works for a semi-state, NGO, or one of those nominally ‘private sector’ firms that’s been handed a few ‘rents’ by some Government.
I’m not a fan of noble defeats, but 35% of people voting for (and limits on bonuses and handshakes) is a fairly substantial marker.
I reckon the equivalent in Ireland would be saying; min., wage = approx 17k, so max., wage would be approx 205k. Sound reasonable?
I was wondering, in Switz or Ireland what ratio might have passed. 20:1 limit? 50:1? 200:1?
200:1, which according to the article is where the outlier in Switz is now, would be roughly 3.4m pa in Ireland.
But I can help thinking that a cap like that might just result in bosses and the highly paid simply getting their basic wage set at that ratio, bursting into tears at the injustice of it all and looking for top-ups.
I wonder if there is a better way of going about it?
@Gavin Kostick,just finished Ian Kehoes excellent buke on Sean Quinn,highly recommended stocking filler.In the epilogue he references the “mercer” report on irish bank execs pay.Attributes that to the tensions btw. DofF and IRBC amongst a few others!
Over here or personally,we get paid last,back end or carried interrst it’s called.
Basically,the investors receive a preferred return or say interest rate that’s cumulative-again this is just rough and a guide-off 8%.They hopefully get their money back plus any unpaid preff. leaving “profit” which is then split or divided up this is negotiable-if you say walk on water good it can be 50% yep.
But clearly this “pay” model is not applicable in a lot of situations.
How would say a highly skilled lecturer at a second rate uni get renumerated…piece of the students future earnings.But then again if they were that good they would simply set up or advise a fund in their ample spare time,quite common stateside.
It’s commonly know as 2 and 20-self policing and everyone’s “happy”.
The carry is most times a capital gain attracting lower tax than say a salary.
An old piece on this,just grabbed it to illustrate/illuminate,but puts forward some off the argument quite well,there have been many alternatives suggested,attempted but it ain’t broken so… http://hedgefund.blogspot.com/2007/03/alpha-and-2-and-20-crowd.html
Any amount off reports studies on this topic,but the old get paid last keep the front end fees to a minimum or “skin in the game” works best in my field.
@Ernie Ball so long as the Swiss refuse to extradite scumbags it will continue to attract the ugly and obnoxious.
In fact a few irish called it home after NAMA was mooted..Dereck Q,Sean D…one of the most famous irish bookies likes the climate too….
If I’m not mistaken you make your own “tax” deal with the canton.
You do realise that if we applied your asinine ratio we would have no professional rugby players left in the country, no golfers, no jockeys
no skilled surgeons etc etc. Life would be really dull and dangerous.
@francis,happens on here I’ve had a few vanish also,personally don’t give a s**t bout Switzerland,refuge off hot and dodgy capital forever.
Finally joining the rest off the civilized world about time too.
@francis,agreed but you did ask,oh the Swiss always complain bitterly whilst hiding dodgy cash about bullying…..
“Nevertheless public opinion in Switzerland is swinging away from past tolerance of banking criminality. As Mark Herkenrath of Alliance Sud in Switzerland comments: “pro-active measures to provide transparency in tax matters are still missing, even though a growing number of citizens and parliamentarians are calling for such measures.”
A referendum, nominally lost, still reflecting to the folks inside, that switzerland doesnt want to be about tax cheating, and confident that they dont have to live off that, in contrast to some other nations.
“You do realise that if we applied your asinine ratio we would have no professional rugby players left in the country, no golfers, no jockeys
no skilled surgeons etc etc. Life would be really dull and dangerous.”
Jonny Sexton (plays in France) gets paid a lot but he couldn’t nail that penalty on Sunday. The money did not put the ball between the posts. Losing again to NZ is dull.
Dysfunctional systems are the real issue whether in banks or surgical settings. Paying the boss whatever without fixing the system won’t change the risks and may even enhance them.
“The role of managers and clinical leaders can be crucial in achieving positive changes in practice, however one danger is that managers may seek simple solutions over evidence - leading them to adopt management techniques that are ineffective or damaging.”
Does that sound familiar?
There are good arguments about paying for performance but dullness doesn’t really come into it. It’s about having effective incentives that reflect the risks involved.
It does not exactly surprise me that a Frankfurt School guy cannot imagine, that my wording with respect to that could and was actually precise. Please read it again.
@ John Gallaher,
I don’t want to get into a discussion, far away from the thread topic, of how to procede best with tax cheating that did happen. To make qualified statements, would require me to spend significantly more time on the subject. Sorry.
I just want to mention 2 points, why that is a lot more complicated, and certainly not the US just being the good police man of the world.
In the US it is important too, how you obtain information, you base your prosecution on, e.g. “Miranda rights”.
We are getting here more and more the impression, that the US tries to impose their will and interest on others, demanding that others break their laws retroactively, while US government and companies feel they can break the law of the land in other lands at will, e.g.
- Spy activities.
- It needed German police to march in, to enforce German labor laws in German Wal-Mart’s.
- Amazon in Germany is refusing to negotiate with the German union, and what I have seen today, I interpret as trying to hire scabs in Dresden to break pending strikes in Leipzig.