Sindo Editorial Does Not Speak For Us

i still can believe that peice was published as a straight editorial by one of our ”papers of record”. i’ve seen some biased euro sceptic peices in the UK telegraph and the Sun in the past but the sindo peice looks like an aprils fools editorial gone wrong.

The Sunday Independent has a high noise/signal ratio (economic speak for saying the Sindo is a rag).

You don’t have to be a fan of recent Franco-German behaviour to find the Sindo’s editorial offensive. Comparing Merkel to Hitler is outrageous.

John McHale’s “anti French” accusation and vague accusations remind me of how those who opposed the Iraq war were demonised as anti-American. What utter absurdity. Does this country even have a right to elect its own parliament any more?

What is the purpose of the post? Is it to brand the opponents of government centralisation in Brussels as racists? Instead of throwing around predictable accusations why not deal with debate on its merits and respect difference of opinion? After all, debate is the foundation of a healthy democracy.

John McHale clearly doesn’t read much Sindo these days if he thinks that “whoever penned and whoever approved the editorial has let the paper down”. They have been an absolute rag (worse even than the Daily Mail) for some years now. Their fictitious circulation figures fool no-one, no more than their equally-fictitious “polls”.

Some may recall the Sindo’s pursuit of the details of Morgan Kelly’s private life last year, and the silence emanating from the quarters of IrishEconomy at that time (incidentally, at the same period when the octogenarian Garret FitzGerald was pursued here for slighting certain Irish economists in the IT).

Language offensive.

The actual points are well trodden at this stage.

Horrible, offensive languaue used in the editorial. However let’s call a rag a rag. The only thing worth reading in it is the intelelctually stimulating thought-pieces by Brendan O’Connor…..

Neverthelss I appreciate John McHale for highlighting it. One shudders to think how this will be viewed in the rest of Europe.

From the offending article, a couple of sentences were particularly interesting:

“……….our future is decided by Frau Merkel’s need to retain the support of Hans, who spends every Friday night in the local Bierkeller complaining about the feckless Greeks, Irish, Turks and other lesser races”

The author had a problem here in that if he had the last two words the dispassionate reader would have been inclined to empathise with Hans and Angela Merkel. It is a classic case of loosing your own argument and then calling people names out of frustration.

“…..need to build a modern league of small nations to curb the imperial ambitions of Frau Merkel and her devious French collaborationists”

Apart from the point that France actually declared war on Germany when others didn’t choose to, got invaded, and actually had a genuine resistance while other countries made some “interesting” choices – there is a strange omission here.

Cars made in Ellesmere Port and Luton might not in future be advertised with as German at some point in the future, but Britain must be studiously ignored as an ally. Is this because it is Imperialist, or is it just that it might be possible for Ireland to tell other “small” nations what to do.

Left out, er, “left out”…….3rd paragraph should be

“The author had a problem here in that if he had left out the last two words…”

The newspaper business is in decline and most are now operating at a loss. The Sindo is appealing to the nationalist tendencies of the lowest common denominator or as they are known in Ireland “ignerent eejits”. We will not be out gutter pressed by the Brits, we have the talent we have the will and by jingo we will win.

Blaming the foreigners is an English speaking country popular sport. Unfortunately for us our Gov’t shot the economy in the gut before 2007 and since death was not imminent they issued the shot to the head when they backstopped the banks. Neither Germany, France, Italy or GB counselled our Gov’t to blow the mother and father of all property bubbles or to prop up the banks to the point it was sure to pull the country into sovereign debt default.

There are a lot of people in Ireland who desperately want to believe that we were not governed by an irresponsible bunch of drunks, clowns or fools. The mass media in a bid for circulation and profitability will cater to this segment that has been shaken to the core by Church scandals, incompetent Gov’t, irresponsible institutions and banks that were irresponsible in the extreme.

In most countries when people want to replace the non performing party there are at least two honest parties to choose from. In Ireland this is not the case as we Irish desperately cling to the devils we know. Were we terminally stunted by the Famine, Poverty, the Church, the British. We need to know so as we can deal with the issue.

@ Mickey Hickey

The Sindo is appealing to the nationalist tendencies of the lowest common denominator

The “nationalism” in the Sindo, it needs to be clarified, is of the West Brit anglophile variety (a speciality in ‘Sir’ Tony’s papers), and nothing to do with Irish nationalism/republicanism.

@ Michael Hickey

Well said.

Change the ‘shirt’ nothing changes.

When will this nation ever grow up?

I must quickly add that I think the Sunday Independent has many outstanding journalists, and I am sure that few agree with the sentiments expressed. They must be most embarrassed of all. I would not see any point in this post if the Sunday Independent was not such a worthy newspaper. Whoever penned and whoever approved the editorial has let the paper down.

Sorry, but no. The Sindo is a rag and has been for at least the last decade. With a few exceptions, I’m not sure that their journalists are actually capable of embarrassment.

It was a cheerleader for FF during the bubble and the disaster that follows, and now, realising that power is about to change hands, is sidling up to FG. The editorial is a disgrace but not exceptional other than in its choice of target. It simply shows that patriotism is indeed the last refuge of the scoundrel.

It just goes to show how much we would shame ourselves, if Fintan O’Toole got his wish to have a referendum on debt restructuring.

Having 2 children that are of a different colour to myself, I’m always intrigued by the defensive human instinct to resort to racist abuse to try to demean others.

There was a classic case at the Vietnam War dominated Democratic convention in Chicago in 1968 when Senator Abraham Ribicoff referred to the ‘Gestapo tactics’ of Mayor Daley’s police; Daley shouted up at the platform: “You Jew sonofabitch; you lousy m-f, go home!”

@ Ciaran Daly

What is the purpose of the post? Is it to brand the opponents of government centralisation in Brussels as racists?

This is a ridiculous inference to make.

@ John Kennedy

You refer to the SPD party twice in your piece but it is in the Opposition.

@John McHale,

Many thanks for kicking this off. I think we should endeavour, when condemning this trash, to try to turn this to positive effect.

Voters in the core EZ countries are angry and this is primarily because they have been duped by their politicians who pushed the Euro through over their heads and tried to convince them it was the best thing since sliced bread. It would be for the best of all possible worlds, they had everything nder control and nothing could go wrong. The reality, much and all as core EZ politicians are seeking to conceal it, is ugly and will cost these voters.

The EU, if it is anything, is a continuous struggle towards something better in the face of low politics and the pursuit of national interests. And we have seen plenty of these in the current crisis. Core EZ politicians are encouraging the demonisation – and enforcing punishment – of the peripherals to deflect attention from their own failings. This is reprehensible, but it is understandable; politicians are the same everywhere. At the same time there is a strong political commitment to keep the EU on track. Excessive demonisation of the peripherals – coupled with grudging and inadequate support – will encourage core EZ voters to demand that they be cut loose – and anti-EU sentiment in the peripherals will grow. This is a fine line while the sovereign bond market is poised to punish any nonsense that increases uncertainty.

What all voters throughout the EU share – and what they need to acknowledge – is that they have all been duped by their politicians (and appointed officials) and that they should have been paying more attention. It is out of this shared understanding that some common purpose might be forged to fix these problems.

We should be reaching out and not engaging in mutual recrimination. There is fault enough on both sides to go round, but it won’t provide the basis to work out sustainable solutions.

Two further points are relevant. First we have been ill-served by our Fourth Estate – many commenters have picked out the Indo and not because of this ‘piece’. But others have failed equally in their duty – if not noticeably worse than the Fourth Estate in most other countries.

Secondly, some people seem to have a strong sense that any resolution of the current EU crisis will result in subservience to the German national interests. This leads to a major question about Ireland’s future economic strategy that Richard Fedigan and others have been raising. Perhaps we might give more thought to this.

After Alan Ruddock passed away, the sindo had Celia Larkin in his place writing articles on bond markets…nuff said really….but i’ll say more!……. as for Brendan O’connor, Mary Harney and Brian Lenihans cheer leader in chief, some of the stuff he has written about them is nauseating. Which is a pity, because he seems to have his head screwed on about a lot of things…..as far as the editorial goes…probably inevitable given the current ongoing efforts to paint europe as a key factor in a mess that was all of our own making.

For goodness sake what do ye all expect?
Our so-called ‘Fourth Estate’ is a supine,p.r riddled,fact bereft parody of what it should be and the Sindo is top of that heap.
Get over it the lot of ye!

@Mickey Hickey

There are a lot of people in Ireland who desperately want to believe that we were not governed by an irresponsible bunch of drunks, clowns or fools.

@Eureka

We are a disgrace and should never have been given independence.

@Ordinary Man

When will this nation ever grow up?

@Mickey Hickey

Were we terminally stunted by the Famine, Poverty, the Church, the British?

JTO again:

Talk about pots calling a kettle black.

We can defend Ireland’s interests without describing an entire nation on the other side of the negotiating table as racist warmongers.

Indeed, some would say that the two go hand-in-hand.

Agreed – nasty

@Tomaltach
I agree entirely with with what you have posted on this topic.

@ John McH

the Sindo piece is ridiculous, but its also indicative of some real anger out there (justified or not), and will, unfortunately, appeal to the base instincts in a lot of people. I think a few people have suggested that an interest rate of 6% on the EU/IMF loans is more akin to ‘war reparation rates’, and Morgan Kelly foresaw a hard-right anti-European political party rising from the Irish economic collapse. Already the Irish love affair with the EU is already visibly under tremendous pressure that is obvious to all. So while the type of rhetoric used by the Sindo is lamentable, it will doubtless be repeated, and it is somewhat to be expected given our current economic malaise. Explaining the more rational and level headed opposition to the current policies is the only antidote to it.

Stopped buying the Indo many years ago. It was obvious then it was pretty awful, with a few exceptions – which were not worth the cost. Encourage your friends not to buy it.

The first part of the piece seemed to be a bad bar-room joke. Some of the remainder was in very poor taste. An ill-directed, stupid, semi-racist rant filler wrapped in a thin veneer of matters of some significance. Someone should be able to ID the author.

BpW

@ Eureka

‘We’ most definately were not given independence – we shot, bombed and burned our way to a negotiating table.

Problem was we then bent the knee to the Chruch and plodded on as best we could electing self seeking ‘local’ poiticians al la Jackie Healy Rea.

Can’t see past the paroichial/county line and last years GAA Championship.

At JTO.

Don’t lump me in with that WB, self loathing attitude. (:

Very far from it.

I agree wholeheartedly with Paul Hunt’s post this morning – look at this as an opportunity for the country to redefine ourselves and engage properly as equals for a better future.

The Irish nation could do worse than take a look at what the German people have been able to achieve since ’45 and get on with it.

Shocking.

And this comes from someone who has likened the banking guarantee meeting on 29th September 2008 to the events in the film “Conspiracy” and our apparent blitheness in negotiating a bailout with the title of one of Tadeusz Borowski’s books.

I have witnessed myself the attitude of continentals and others in the 2000s when we turned up in their countries with bags of cash wanting to buy their property. “Ahh it’s IRA money” was not an uncommon perception. At least the ignorance might have been partly excused by the recentness of difficult Irish history.

But stretching back into the 1930s to tarnish our EU partners is pretty lowest-common-denominator stuff. And as for “if Germany continues to behave like the fat boy in boarding school who thinks he can do what he wants because Papa owns the tuck shop “, haven’t seen that stereotype since Augustus Gloop in Willy Wonka.

German pensioners, bilked of their life savings by reckless lending of their banks to our (recklessly supervised) banks that then recklessly lent to developers whose recklessness is costing us all, freeze to death because they can’t afford their heating bills just as much as our own.

@Mr. Bond,

“Explaining the more rational and level headed opposition to the current policies is the only antidote to it.”

I fully agree with your adjectives, but I believe the ‘opposition’ has to be finely nuanced. An excessive focus on opposition can easily lead to the ugly sentiments the Sindo has expressed. What energised me in this instance is that holding the editorial chair of a print organ with a large circulation confers the power to speak to, and to be seen to speak for, a large number of citizens. But it also imposes responsibilities and duties in a democratic society that is associated with other democracies in pursuit of fundamental, shared purposes. I have no wish to suppress the expression of these ugly sentiments; it is far better that they are out there and contested. But it should not be the editorial stance.

And imo it is not sufficient, as some here seem to think, to view this as an ugly fact of life and to express one’s disapproval by refraining from subscribing to the print edition. I suspect the web-based version may have as much currency as the print edition. Our scrutiny of the media should be as vigilant as that we apply to politicians and appointed officials – even if both have been seriously deficient over the last decade.

And as to ‘opposition’, this has to be in the form of a constructively critical engagement. It would not be a sign of weakness if our next government were to concede that Ireland has been ill-governed – and to concede that they, while in opposition, did not do enough too expose this misgovernance. But it would allow them to highlight the failures in governance of the EZ, the dangers of pursuing the current approach which is perceived as demonising and is genuinely damaging the peripherals.

But, above all, our next government’s ability to speak confidently and clearly to our EU partners will have to be based on a demonstrable commitment to reform democratic governance and to pursue meaningful structural reforms of the non-tradable, sheltered sectors. And finally, the focus on defence of our low CT rate (which, inreality is probably similar to the effective rate on mobile MNCs in most other member-states) should be advanced as a transitional arrangement while we revise and develop Ireland’s future economic strategy in the context of the EU’s strategic economic engagement with a multi-polar world.

Leaving aside the unsavoury personalisation of Germany as Angela Merkel, I think there is a basic truth in the Independent: the smaller nations of Europe do need to counterbalance the larger economies. And we will need a strong Foreign Minister to do our share in that. I alwasy thought that “Europe” was going to work out that way.

Throughout the 70s and 80s the Confederation of Irish Industry (Remember it? Old-timers raise their hands) plagued successive governments about the need to push French and German in education. The state had joined the EEC, now it was time to get serious about market opportunities. I can’t quite picture the faces of the old hands at CRH and the like, but the Sindo blathertorial must have those above ground sickened and those below ground revolving in their graves. It is another example of ‘deflective thinking’. The compunction in official Ireland to misidentify the seat of problems requires for its probing a particularly Freudian turn of mind.

You’ve all let Eoghan Harris (of whom the prose reeks) get to you.

Translating our friends in Norway above

“I found on the excellent blog The Irish Economy, whose writers are denouncing the newspaper”

@John McHale
IMHO this thread should not have been started!

I look forward to reading many more of your excellent postings and aticles (unfortunately I cannot consider this as being among them) in the future.

@Veronica

This thread may ensure that the relevant editorial will be read(not only in “bierkellers”or”bistros” )throughout Europe in full knowledge that the relevant newspaper, despite itś populism, reflects sentiment in Ireland.

As a consequence I am inclined to interpret this posting and thread as being irresponsible and having no place on this site which I rely on for objective analysis and information.

@Paul Hunt

As a reader who does “not usually make comments” I am A “little taken aback” by the first sentence in your immaculately written comment particularly when you stress the importance of not turning “a blind eye to offensive offerings”.

While we may differ on whether John was correct to respond to your request(and thereby attracting the kind of attention it is likely to outside Ireland) I have no doubt we both agree on the importance of “articles”.

I agree with your sentiments John, but not with your description of the SIndo as a “worthy newspaper” – it has been a ling time since that description fitted. The editorial was vulgar, cheap, racist and unthinking. Cop yourselves on Aenghus & Co

For those who say “no one in Europe reads this” – correct. But there is an underemployed German Embassy in Dublin (as practically all embassies are) who do read the papers – what else to do on Monday? – and report back in glorious prose to headquarters on the crude and extreme anti-German statements of Ireland’s largest selling newspaper. And all because German politicians pander to their voters (just like Irish, or any other, politicians do).

Ireland has always used external reference points to judge itself. It’s because we were allocated resources by a foreign power as opposed to winning them for ourselves.
This is different. We will succeed on the basis of our collective endeavour and not because johny foreigner thinks we deserve to.
All Europeans have fought for their nations. They would expect no less from us.

That piece [Editorial] is deliberate & an incitement. The fascists would have been proud of such a piece.

Very disappointing. It contributes nothing to the debate or the solution. As John pointed out in his piece it may [or response may] contribute in some way to circulation, though I doubt it. Laughter is usually a good response – except it’s not funny.

“One wonders who among the Rainbow ranks might fit that particular bill.”

Try the Mirror.

My No. 1 goes to France & Germany …

@Paul Hunt

Thank you!

Please rest assured that I respect (and share your sentiments regarding the embarassing content and inappropriate tone used in the specific editorial) your argument.

I also completely concur with your excellent closing sentence.

Best…L

Hey John,

Before you wind up why don’t you try the Press Ombudsman as suggested by Veronica above. You may be able to force a retraction or apology.

That is their job afterall. Hovever them being an quango type operation (and some previous experience) I would not expect them to be of any use.

But go ahead, http://www.pressombudsman.ie and tell us how you get on.

@ Paul

Yes, try the editor first.
But what is the point of having the quasi-judicial or regulatory organisation?
Surely it should enforce as opposed to encourage?

All of these ‘regular readers’ of the Sindo contributing to this site??!!
Have ye no shame or nothing better to do ‘of a Sunday’??

Paul,

In my previous comment, I suggested taking the matter up with the editor in the first instance, and then referring it up with the Press Ombusdman if the response is unsatisfactory. Unless there is a new editorial abjectly apologising for the tone and content of the previous week’s offering in next Sunday’s paper then arguably the response may be deemed unsatisfactory. In any case, a complaint can be made up to three months after the offending material is published. So if people wish to pursue the matter after the election is over, there is ample time to do so.

To be honest, I think there’s as much chance of the Sunday Indo retracting this leader prior to the election, or thereafter, as a snowball in hell. The media don’t play by Queensbury Rules, and certainly not the Sindo. In my professional capacity over the years I have dealt more than once or twice with newspapers seeking retractions, corrections etc. and even where they were flagrantly in the wrong, it was like extracting hens’ teeth trying to negotiate anything with them.

The Press Ombudsman’s office is a creation of the Irish media itself, a compromise that was wrung out of the newspapers in exchange for some relaxation in the defamation laws. It was the newspapers too who devised, and signed up to, its principles; including Principle 8. Now those principles either stand for something as rules of conduct or they’re just more mealy-mouthed aspirations to appease the rest of society that the Press are going to be made to behave responsibly in the exercise of their role and functions within society. Then again, this is a great country for rules to keep our institutions in check, and an even better one for ignoring them.